Oh, and all power to Jim Carroll for restating in public what I usually get kicked for saying. You should never sing/play out till you can. 'Caring deeply about the music' entails not disrespecting it by doing so, or letting loose in public anyone who isn't ready to perform. The 'f*lk club'; is not a rehearsal room, or shouldn't be. The only out-of-tune (moi?)/hesitant rendition I'll listen to is myself in the shower, learning to get it right before anyone else hears it. Of course 'certain standards' should be demanded. Alex Campbell was practising self-irony (I think . . . possibly . . . )