GUEST,Gza - 07 Dec 06 - 12:54 PM

"Iran funds terrorism"?? - True Gza, even Iran does not deny this. They provide training, weapons and financial backing to groups whose sole purpose is to destabilse the region. They are not interested in peace or in the suffering of the Palestinian people. Peace is an anathema to these people, any peace deal would completely and utterly end their influence in the situation and relegate them to the sidelines, that they cannot accept as they then could not use the Palestinian/Israel conflict to divert the attention of their own population away from their own internal repressive measures.

"From their point of view the biggest terrorists out there are the USA and Israel, who have killed far more people and funded far more effective death-dealing than the Iranians have."

Pretty broad statement there Gza. Have you any facts to back that up. I see that you are very selective when it comes to looking at the period of this conflict. Here however are some of the facts:

- Under the League of Nations Mandate a Jewish Homeland was to be established. Note Gza a Jewish Homeland, not a Jewish Nation, not a Jewish State. As agreed the area in which this was to take place the Jews were allocated 25% of the area the Arabs 75%. While the Arabs could buy and settle within the areas allocated to the Jews, the Jews could not purchase land in the 75% of the area allocated to the Arabs.

- In 1920 the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (Tosser Arafat's Uncle) instigated an Arab uprising against the Jews in Palestine based on the lie that Jews had attacked and killed Arabs - That was a lie deliberately told and entirely without foundation. Truth was that not a single Arab had even had his hair ruffled let alone killed. No matter to Tosser Arafat's Uncle who was a lying, thiefing conniving bastard at the best of times, all of these sterling qualities in a self-appointed "national" leader he passed on the Tosser Arafat himself, which goes a long way to explain the current state of the Palestinian people who entrusted their leadership in this charlatan and crook.

- In 1929 the same Grand Mufti pulled the same stunt again, this time he was arrested for it but escaped and fled - Another lie told by a so-called Arab spiritual leader that caused innocent blood to be spilled - How we going so far Gza? Ever read about any of this?

- 1936 comes "The Arab Revolt" for the third time the Grand Mufti (Tosser Arafat's Uncle) tries it on, but by this time the Jews have organised, because they now know that they cannot rely on the British for protection against the lies of this complete and utter arsehole and the activities of his "followers" although "sheep" would be a far better description. This time the Grand Mufti has to flee, because the Brits are now onto his game. Where does he go - directly to a certain A. Hitler, resident of the by now slightly enlarged German Reich. Tosser Arafat's Uncle remains in Berlin as A. Hitler's honoured guest throughout the war, with the odd excursion to form Muslim SS units in the Balkans in oder to hunt down Jews who might have escaped the German dragnet for the "Final Solution".

- 1945, whoops, massive dissappointment for Tosser Arafat's Uncle because A. Hitler fails to deliver on his promise of world domination, that world being entirely Jew free. Consequence, Tosser Arafat's Uncle, the self-styled grand Mufti of Jerusalem has to run and hide for a while. He eventually turns up in Egypt where he bounces the infant Tosser Arafat on his knees and fills his head with tales of the "good-old-days" and educates Tosser Arafat in the ways of scamming the "Palestinian People" (Tosser Arafat proves to be very good at this, amassing a personal fortune at the expense of the people he is supposed to be leading, who in reality he could give a toss for).

- 1945 to 1948 dying phase of the British Mandate under the terms of the League of Nations. The Brits who have been between a rock and a hard place, and who have been trying with everything at their disposal to limit immigration of Jews into Palestine to agreed levels, tell the newly formed UN that they will no longer stand guard over this area.

1948 - The Arab League attack Jewish settlements. The Jewish Settlers although vastly outnumbered and outgunned fight back and win. The UN recognises the State of Israel as does the United States of America, who further declares that they will guarantee the security of the State of Israel. Over 500,000 Jews expelled from Arab countries, their land and property confiscated. During the conflict a far lesser number of Arabs advised by the Arab League to vacate their land in order that unrestricted attacks can be made upon the Jewish civilians and armed forces. Unfortunately for the Arab League the Jews win through, and the Arab League has to sue for peace and a ceasefire is brokered by the UN. Arabs however not happy - they have gambled and they have lost - in terms of conflicts throughout history such events have consequences clearly not accepted by the Arabs of the region - Still with us Gza?

1956 - Gamal Abul Nasser, the great pan-Arabist decides that he will put matters to right and wipe Israel off the face of the world. Main grievance is Palestinian right of return. In the meantime the Jews have made their displaced bretheren from Arab lands welcome in the newly formed State of Israel, while the neighbouring Arab States have done absolutely damn all for the Palestinian refugees, denied them any rights of citizenship and filled their heads with false hopes of Right of Return - Note Gza the Arabs do not even consider offering such right of return to the Jewish refugees that they kicked out at 24 hours notice - That seem fair to you Gza? Unfortunately Gamal Abul Nasser and the rest of the Arab world who decide to attack Israel in order to put the matter to rights get their collective butts kicked and Israel wins again. Another peace deal is brokered by the UN. However the Arabs are still not happy, they want to return to the status quo of 1948 - sorry not possible- Once again they have gambled and they have lost - in terms of conflicts throughout history such events have consequences clearly not accepted by the Arabs of the region .

1966 - Gamal Abul Nasser again decides to try his hand, forms a coalition of the willing, hoodwinks Jordan into supporting him, and starts parking various large armies along the borders of Israel. The pre-emptive strike to beat all pre-emptive stikes is launched by the Israeli airforce. The Israeli's achieve total air superiority in the region and total defeat of the Arab armies ensues. Another UN brokered ceasefire, Arabs not happy, having threatened Israel with total destruction and lost, they want to return to the status quo of 1956 ceasefire agreement - sorry not possible - they have gambled and they have lost - in terms of conflicts throughout history such events have consequences clearly not accepted by the Arabs of the region.

1973 - Yom Kippur War Arabs try it on again and suffer another defeat (They should be getting used to this by now, but they are obviously on a very slow learning curve). Another UN brokered ceasefire with the Arabs wishing to return to 1966 borders, sorry not possible - they have gambled and they have lost - in terms of conflicts throughout history such events have consequences clearly not accepted by the Arabs of the region.

Bi-Lateral peace agreements struck between Israel and Egypt and Israel and Jordan - Land for peace. Tosser Arafat's PLO attempt a coup to displace the Hashemite rulers of Jordan the only Arab country to offer the Palestinians a secure refuge. This results in the Palestinians being displaced from Jordan and Jordan cedes the West Bank to the Palestinians.

Various Intifada's where Tosser Arafat encourages the youth of the Palestinian refugee camps to do what he and other Arab leaders have singularly failed to do - i.e. take on Israel. Israel quite rightly takes the view, you attack us, we will attack you. Major point of difference is however that the Israeli's concentrate on attacking the militants, the PLO employ a deliberate policy of indiscriminate attacks on Jewish civilians. As Israeli attacks prove to be successful the PLO militants surround themselves with Palestinian human shields.

What ensues is an never-ending series of Arab indiscriminate attack followed by Israeli targeted assassination, as in previous conflicts the Israeli's prove to be the more successful.

No Palestinian attacks results in no Israeli reprisals - Hezbollah and Hamas have yet to hoist this fact in, they are still on that extremely slow Arab learning curve. They still cling to this avowed goal of eliminating the State of Israel and driving the Jews into the sea. They still hold dear to their belief that the existance of the State of Israel is a stain on the face of the Arab World that must at all costs be erradicated. Gza, as long as that mind set prevails in the hearts of the Arabs, people will die, because as clearly stated in this thread every nation has right of self defence - That includes the internationally recognised State of Israel, and in the past fifty years, she's made a damn good job of it against some pretty incredible odds, long may she continue to do so.