Well at very least I think Teribus is being unfair. This guy isn't right wing, left wing or whatever - he's trying to think this thing through, and he may be on to something.

The way you win a war is to surround your enemy with superior forces and kill him, and a lot of other innocent people. Like the Union army in the American Civil War, or the aliies in WW2. In WW2 of course the Russians did a lot of our dying for us. If you're not prepared to do that, you shouldn't be fighting a war - its not fair to the men who put their lives on the line for your cause.

The Germans didn't stop being Nazis because they had a change of heart. They stopped being Nazis, because if we found one being a Nazi, we shot them in public. And we showed them there were was more percentage in doing things our way. But as the guy says - we are talking MASSIVE commitment.

Furthermore there is no way you can guarantee democracy is going to deliver you something sane and sensible in the way of government. Malaya being a bloody good case in point.   So you can't really with any degree of honesty, promise a stable benevolent government at the end of the road.

I don't really think this war was ever about that. It was about showing the world there are pains and penalties if you pull a stunt like 9/11. There is a military response. And I think in a way - Bush's ignorance speaks very eloquently. It says I don't care if you are fundamentalists or not. I get any shit from your part of the world and this shit is what happens. Look out your window at the wreckage and say Thankyou Osama, without you - there would have been none of this.

I think America and England will withdraw without creating Utopia in Iraq. And I think the people who thought this one out, won't give a bugger. Mission accomplished, as far as they are concerned.