"...If this is the criteria that calls into question our being civilized..."

Yes, Mick, for me this is a significant criterion- ie the readiness of a state to kill people in cold blood (quite regardless of whether the process is cruel and discriminatory, which in the US it obviously is). But I'm surprised you bothering to argue the point about "civilised" while the Guantanamo Bay detention centre still exists; the US exploits a cynical process ofits own invention called "rendition," and the Admin is happy to see torture applied "in a just cause".

All of which would be bad enough, except that the US then takes it upon itself to try to impose its values where it has no business to interfere - Vietnam, Chile, Nicaragua, Cuba, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc....).

For the record, and as I have said many times, I am ashamed and disgusted when I see the UK trying to ape the US in some of these ways. But thank God, not when it comes to capital punishment.

Barry Finn: BRAVO!