Ron, you make a very good point, even if it's not quite what you intended. You got into the argument with Shambles rather late, didn't you? Why did you feel like you 1) needed to do that, and 2) wouldn't do any harm by doing it?

Now, try to imagine all the other serial opponents Shambles has had over the years considering the 'good of the forum' before they indulged themsleves and tell me if you think that's realistic.

I agree that we'd all be better off with some consideration for other people and the self-control necessary to do that. Tell the people who are continually going at it with Roger that they should think about others and stop it.

They will say they just can't let untruths stand without challenge. They will say they have a right to argue with him, no matter how obnoxious or dim some of us think they are.   I've watched this whole sorry mess unfold, and the truth is that if there were a lifeboat with some of these people in it and I were drowning, I'd have to think for quite a while before agreeing to get into it. Some of you just seem cruel. I also fully realize I've probably annoyed others by not shutting up when they though I should have.

The bottom line is there will always be people who will jump at a stupid argument without regard for how it affects others. If the destructive stuff can be stopped - at least temporarily - by removing one or a few instigators instead of current and future selfish joiners-in, it's going to be the few who suffer, not the many.

Max has said, "we do not have the ability currently to force him out or from returning, so I stress that I have asked him to leave". If Shambles continues to disrespect Max and ignore the request, he's challenging Max to develop the ability to force him out.