Thank you, TIA...I had been sitting on my hands, trying to figure out how AGAIN make the point about what is tested and what counter-examples to astrological claims look like. Your point about REAL tests showing NO particular discernable pattern is what genuine testing means.

This quote: "We all gain knowledge about our daily world without the use of a scientific method. I think the 'scientific method' is not the transparent, non-contestable,self-evident concept that you both appear to believe in. " had me puzzling at length about how to approach the misunderstanding embedded in it.

The best way I can say it is that.....the 'scientific method' is NOT a set of clear rules, like a checklist for inspecting a car, but rather, a guideline for basic testing of any kind. IF one thoroughly examines all the questions about a claim or theory and asks enough relevant questions, one HAS applied the scientific method. Therefore, any "knowledge (we gain) about our daily world without the use of a scientific method" is, by definition, weakly supported and subject to suspicion.

What other 'methods' ARE available? Too often, they are only superstition, acceptance of authority, wishful thinking and simple reliance on coincidence.

I wish there was an easier way to say it, but there isn't.