The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #97949   Message #1941217
Posted By: Teribus
18-Jan-07 - 10:00 PM
Thread Name: BS: USA and the brits in Northern Ireland
Subject: RE: BS: USA and the brits in Northern Ireland
Back in the 15th Century Ard, why were those laws enacted. In fact Ard, I believe those Laws were enacted during the reign of Henry VIII or later, which makes it the 16th Century at the earliest.

Popular misconception in Ireland is that Chief O'Niel was a patriot who played Elizabeth in order to win Ireland (That fuzzy Hollywood creation of Irish American dreams) her freedom. In actual,fact the guy was trying to turn Ireland over to Spain (The Super Power of the age) as a colony, but a colony that Chief O'Neil was to rule as Governor.

While England might put up with Spanish shennanigans in Ireland and French shennanigans in Scotland the long term of aims of Spain or France were never going to be allowed to come to fruition, not as long as one English butt pointed downwards - and remember that both Spain and France were the super powers of this time.

Fortunately for England, neither the French, or the Spanish, EVER had any real confidence in either the Scottish or Irish to back them in order to bring the matter to a head. And at the time, poor bankrupt, destitute, England won the game of high stakes poker being waged internationally, mainly thanks to Wallsingham - Elizabeth's spy master, who ensured that poor though she was, Elizabeth out manoeuvred the opposition, be it French, or Spanish, throughout her reign. As the complete and utter underdog, the rank outsider, she saw them both into oblivion and managed to co-opt their surrogates to her country's cause for the next four hundered years.

The discussion has been mainly about the Famine (1846 to 1851) and Ard talks about 1829 and Catholic Emancipation?

However Ard regarding Catholic Emancipation:

"The first Catholic Relief Act was passed in 1778; subject to an oath against Stuart claims to the throne and the civil jurisdiction of the Pope, it allowed Roman Catholics in Great Britain and Ireland to own property, inherit land, and join the army. Reaction against this led to the Gordon Riots in 1780. Further relief was given in 1791. The Irish Parliament passed similar Acts between 1778 and 1793. Since the electoral franchise at the time was largely determined by property, this relief gave the votes to Roman Catholics holding land with a rental value of £2 p.a. They also started to gain access to many professions from which they had been excluded.

The issue of greater political emancipation was considered in 1800 at the time of the Act of Union between Great Britain and Ireland: it was not included in the text of the Act because this would have led to greater Irish Protestant opposition to the Union, but it was expected to be a consequence given the proportionately small number of Roman Catholics in the UK as a whole.

William Pitt the Younger, the Prime Minister, had promised Emancipation to accompany the Act. However, no further steps were taken at that stage, in part because of the belief of King George III that it could violate his Coronation Oath. Pitt resigned when King George's opposition became known, as he was unable to fulfill his pledge. Catholic Emancipation then became a debating point rather than a major political issue.

In 1823, Daniel O'Connell started a campaign for repeal of the Act of Union, and took Catholic Emancipation as his rallying call, establishing the Catholic Association. In 1828 he stood for election in County Clare in Ireland and was elected even though he could not take his seat in the House of Commons. He repeated this in 1829.

The resulting commotion led the Duke of Wellington and Sir Robert Peel, against their previous judgements, to introduce and carry the major changes of the Catholic Relief Act of 1829, removing many of the remaining substantial restrictions on Roman Catholics in the UK.

Ard, you quote your French visitor of 1839, Gustave de Beaumont. Scottish Act of Union with England in 1707, widely unpopular with the Scottish people at the time. By 1800 the country (Scotland) was thriving and continued to do so. 1801 Irish Act of Union with the United Kingdom, for Ireland as a whole the result was zip, absolutely nothing, now why was that Ard. You have just become one quarter part of the greatest trading Empire the world has ever known. England benefits from it, Scotland benefits from it and Wales benefits from it. Northern Ireland benefits from it, but the rest of Ireland becomes "a nation of paupers". How come Ard? What did all the others take advantage of that the rest of Ireland didn't? couldn't? or wouldn't?