The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #97949   Message #1941544
Posted By: Teribus
19-Jan-07 - 10:06 AM
Thread Name: BS: USA and the brits in Northern Ireland
Subject: RE: BS: USA and the brits in Northern Ireland
Ard, your post of 19 Jan 07 - 08:39 AM, is typical of the emotional rubbish and oversimplification, wracked with inaccuracies that manages to completely misrepresent the situation.

Let's logically and unemotionally, take a look at what problems would have faced those transporting and distributing food to the areas worst affected by the blight.

Where were those areas Ard? Were those the same areas in which those vast amounts of food were grown? I don't think so. There are some very good maps of Ireland illustrating the areas affected. There are also statistics showing population movement and deaths in the various counties. They tend to support my line of reasoning. Not all land was owned by absentee English landlords, much of it was owned by the ancient Irish aristocracy - those who took the soup - they were as much to blame as the others.

How much do you know about shifting loads using horse drawn transport Ard? What is the ratio of wagons carrying food for the starving people to wagons carrying food for the horses, food for those delivering the aid, spares for the wagons, etc? Depending on distance to travel its somewhere in the order of 1:5. I know there is some comical assumption that horses eat grass, and that there was plenty of grass in Ireland, but you will not get any work out of horses that just eat grass, because just to survive the horse must eat grass all day, if it is eating all day it can hardly be delivering vital aid to starving people.

Name the developed deep-water ports on the west coast of Ireland in the mid-1800's Ard. There were not many, compare their location to the parts worst affected by the famine. West coast, Atlantic coast of Ireland Ard, could you foresee any problems for sailing ships of the size required to transport the amount of food required? The first two steam powered ships of the Royal Navy were put to relief work to overcome problems related to wind and weather.

Judging the remarks made by yourself in the post referred to above, reasonably and logically, far from problems of transport and distribution being laid to rest, you illustrate that you haven't ever really considered them - Most likely because they form no part of your myth.   

The point made earlier that no-one learns from experience/history was incorrect, Sir Charles Edward Trevelyan did. As for India being a much more fertile area for plunder. I think that you overlook the vast amounts that Britain invested in India. Niall Ferguson covers this aspect of the Raj very well. At the height of the Mogul Empire 5% of the land in India was irrigated, and famines and droughts were common. By the time that the British left that percentage was up to 25%, with subsequent improvement in agriculture and crop yield.

In an earlier post you compared the decline in the population of Ireland to the growth in England, but omit to mention either the agricultural or industrial revolutions that fuelled that growth.

TC asked regarding this quoted passage:

"England benefits from it, Scotland benefits from it and Wales benefits from it. Northern Ireland benefits from it" (Teribus)

You are talking about the Priviliged Classes here, I take it, Teribus?

Not at all TC, taking into account the origins of my own family I would say that their lot in life has continually improved over the course of the last 300 years, and that I would say is fairly common.