I started this particular thread and I am not sure I have anything new to add. People above have made the most crucial points.

But I have listened to the programme twice on Listen again and would simply say:

1. Dave made his points well but the format of the programme Dave first, John second, no come back, enabled John to tell his own story with out recourse to the points made by Dave.

2. John Leonard, when asked to define "traditional" gives us

a. No known composer and
b. passed through many hands.
Who could argue? The White Hare is not trad.

3. When talking about the song JL quickly moves from "The Song" to "The Story" and argues the "The Story" to be trad. and hence the song! The tune was picked by Seth as a boy and modified. mmmmmmm.

4. JL then alludes to the traditional song "The White Hare" is if the two songs are closely related as different variants of many trad. songs are. Seth's song is not related in this way, if at all.

Points 3 & 4 seem to show JL being somewhere between devious and dishonest in defending his position and this is the second issue that brings so many of us to this conflict:

Why is JL the only person who will not say TWHINATS? Does he have something to hide? Lets make no bones about he is extremely experienced and talented and generally a force for good. Why has JL talked himself into this corner? That is why we seek clarity.

Thanks to Dave for a good job well done in the face of much nonsense!