trust me I have been reading this thread, and then I've been trying to think of any folk club that I have visited in my area that was poorly run, filthy and disgusting -and I cannot so I must be lucky. Then I tried to think of any that I would say were poorly run or where the organiser did not put any effort into it-again I cannot. But I can think of a few people who work full time, organise folk clubs and try their hardest to sustain it with no financial backing other than door charges. who have had to move premises at the drop of a hat when no suitable alternatives can be found because there is a music ban or a wide screen sport tv installed and whos membership is dwindling because people are getting older or working later and later. Its a tough profession on that we both agree, but you have individually attacked people here, and laid the charge that organiser are so inept that they are cutting off the livelihoods of performers. I think that is out of order and frankly not true in my experience.