The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #98924   Message #1977010
Posted By: Teribus
23-Feb-07 - 10:38 AM
Thread Name: BS: Proof that Bush lied
Subject: RE: BS: Proof that Bush lied
Barry,

In response to your post

1) "Where is all this evidence, where are the WMD'S that could strike us in 45 munites? That's what we were going into Iraq for."

For the first part, refer your question to the UNSCOM Inspectors. They were the ones, who in 1998, gave the estimates of what they believed Iraq still possessed in terms of WMD, delivery systems, stored agents and precursors and relevant development programmes. If you read what the UNSCOM Inspectors wrote in their report this was all stuff that could be in existance, or it could have been stuff that had been destroyed in such a way that it's destruction could not be verified. Either way the matter had to be resolved to the satisfaction of the UN. During the course of 1998 UNSCOM reported to the UNSC that due to lack of co-operation, denial of free-access to sites ("Presidential Palaces"), deception and harassment on the part of the Iraqi authorities, they could not do their jobs.

The 45 minute claim applied to tactical battlefield munitions and medium range missiles. The instant I saw it reported, I recognised it from "The Threat" lectures I had been given. Weapons designed to carry chemical or biological agents are not stored in a filled condition. Authorisation is given for them to be used and they are then armed - that complete process takes 45 minutes - to actually arm the weapons only takes about 20 to 25 minutes. What the US went into Iraq for was to enforce the requirements of all outstanding UNSC resolutions relevant to Iraq and to topple the Ba'athist Regime of Saddam Hussein (Official US Foreign Policy since 1998).

2) "Please. Where are the free Iraqis, there not falling all over us in the streets? Well, they are dropping dead! Where is their Free Democratic Society?"

All Iraqi's are now free Barry, unfortunately they now enjoy such a degree of freedom that they are free to kill one another, exactly as those who resorted to violence in Northern Ireland did. What ever it is that Iraqi's want is there for the taking, all they have to do is talk about it - It took the paramilitaries thirty years to realise that in Northern Ireland - somehow I don't think that the Iraqi's will take that long. For all the media hype much of Iraq is peaceful.

3) "Well, we now have created the setting for Civil War!"

"We" have created nothing, the setting for this "Civil War" that all the anti-Bush, anti-War crowd yabber on about has been in existence since 1922. And as has been pointed out above if that is what the Iraqi's want then let them have it, after all both the USA and the UK have had their "Civil Wars" and managed to come through it OK, Likewise Spain, Greece and a whole rake of other countries. Why deny the Iraqi's the benefits if that is what they are so hell bent on.

4) "Where were all of those terrorists camps? Did they get covered up in a sand storm?"

Shut down Barry

5) "Where in the world is it better because we invaded Iraq?"

Number of international terrorist "spectaculars" is way down on pre-2003 levels.

Iraq is no longer a state sponsor of terrorist organisations (Indicator of that is the drop in suicide bombings in Israel since March 2003).

6) "How has terrorism diminished,"

- They now find it harder to train
- They now find it harder to move money
- They now find it harder to plan anything other than extremely small time operations.
- They have been sucked into fighting a visible war in Iraq, whereas their first guiding principle should be for them to pick "their ground", "their target", "their battles".
- Al-Qaeda in Iraq's losses so far have amounted to over 4000 men
- Taleban and Al-Qaeda fighters in Afghanistan lost approximately 3000 men in 2006 alone. It will be intersting to see how effective their much vaunted "spring offensive" will be.
- How many Terrorist attacks have been carried out in the USA since 20th March 2003?
- How many Terrorist attacks were carried out in the USA prior to that date?
- How many US or foreign vessels been attacked since 20th March 2003?
- How many were attacked prior to that date?
- How many US Embassy's have been blown up since 20th March 2003?
- How many had been attacked/blown up prior to that date?

7) "it's (Terrorism) blossomed & flowering everywhere & we've become the targets of most.

Sorry to disillusion you Barry but you (The US) have been the targets for decades, nothing whatsoever to do with Iraq, or Afghanistan. Where is the evidence that supports your contention that it is blossoming and flowering everywhere? The media? Don't make me laugh, they are solely in the business of selling news and bad news sells better than good.

8) "How are we better off, though that's a purely selfish reason for going into Iraq but it was a reason?"

That was the primary reason "we" went into Iraq. It was done to eliminate what was evaluated as being the greatest threat to the United States of America, the interests of the USA and the allies of the USA in the region.

9) "How better off are the Iraqi people since we've gone in there? Of course hardley anyone now believes that we had their best interests at heart to begin with!"

Well to get an answer to that Barry you would have to ask someone who had actually sufferred under the rule of Saddam Hussein, or had experienced the attentions of either of that man's sons, and by God you'll find enough of them. One thing is for certain though Barry, the future of Iraq and its people is a damn sight better in prospect now than it ever could have been had Saddam remained in power.