Susan, at least for me, the point is not necessarily to win arguments, but to clearly see the other's position, and have them see mine, and hopefully come to an agreement that satisfies both without infringing on the rights of either.

Using the long suffering same sex couple as an example again: there are a few churches willing to welcome and marry them. There are many churches which will not. That works, no one is forced or outrageously limited in choice. But if a prohibitive law is passed, due to religious beliefs of voters (never mind the RRR), that, IMO, is not right, it is persecution based on god belief. There is no doubt in my mind that there is danger of this happening, and I fear most mainstream churches will not fight for the rights of those they deem to be anti-god.

My dear mum is the nicest, most devout person in the world; I know she would take in, feed and clothe a starving gay person, but she very nearly left the church over its pro same sex marriage stance. Which is to say, it does not matter how intelligent, tolerant, loving, a theist is: their buck always stops at the pronouncement of god, beyond which no human argument can penetrate.