It is because our direct experience is that without a "mover", there is no motion.

This is basic stuff Mrzzy--why haven't you worked it out already?

Ummm - if everything has a cause, then there cannot be a first cause, is basic logic. I worked that one out a long time ago.

What you seem to be arguing is analogous to Because there is time, there must have been a time before time. Does not make sense to me at all.

282, that is exactly my issue. I don't see why I should act as if such beliefs were reasonable, when they aren't. I think they should be treated as the silliness they are. One of my friends thought a long time ago that the only way towards a secular society would be through ridicule, but I didn't think he was right.