If you don't have enough guts to face your own subjectivity with as critical a scrutiny as you do the subjectivity of others, Bill, then you may never attain humility or true wisdom.

It is abundantly clear to me that one thing, and only one thing is ever happening in this and in all such discussions on Mudcat.

1. People initially commit themselves to an opinion on something, based on whatever they're heard about it...from wherever. (doesn't matter much where)

2. Following that commitment, which is a wholly emotional one, they interpret all further evidence that they are presented with strictly to suit their now sacred opinion no matter what. Ron's interpretation of the jets of smoke and debris coming out of a few concentrated spots on those buildings (as happens in a controlled demolition when charges have been set off) is a spectacular example of how that is done. Just work everything backward from your established conclusion. Work backwards from your conclusion at all times, and you will never find your conclusion in jeopardy. (and you will say...that's what YOU'RE doing! naturally...)

Cops do the same thing (sometimes) when they DECIDE in their gut that someone (who is really innocent) is the guilty party in a crime. So have innocent men been tried, convicted, and rotted in jail, even been executed, yet later found out to have been innocent. There are numerous examples of this, but cops are supposed to be ojective, aren't they? Anyone can rationalize available evidence to fit a pre-determined conclusion he holds dear, and people do it all the time.

We are all speaking largely on faith...based on an initial gut decision we made...based on our initial reaction to various evidence we saw or heard about...our interpretation of the evidence is usually highly subjective.

There IS no way for any of us (on this forum) to prove we are right...because we don't have the resources to. All we can do is use what reason we have and make a gut decision about it.

Don't imagine that your gut decision is any more guaranteed to be right than mine or anyone else's, and recognize the fact that it is an emotional decision of yours which has become part of your identity. People defend their identity as tenaciously as they defend their very life.

And THAT is the engine driving all this combative and endless BS on this forum, none of which will ever achieve anything! Not facts. Not objectivity. Not fairness. Not mutual respect. Not impartiality. Just defence of established identity against "other".

It's enough to make a person sick, frankly. It makes me sick to watch it. I only keep coming back here because I'm addicted to doing so. To paraphrase the 12-step thing, I recognize that I am not powerful enough (yet) to overcome this addiction.

You're a good guy, Bill, as people go, but you are not willing to really face your own fallibility, your own subjectivity, and look it in the eye. That's how I see it. We could just as easily be on the opposite sides of this 911 argument. And if we were...nothing would change. You'd still think I was being completely idiotic. I'd still think you were completely failing to recognize that you are just the same as me...and subject to the very same weaknesses.

Either one of us may be completely mistaken about 911, and I know it. I KNOW how little I know, and how fragile my sacred "truths" are. I don't think you realise how little YOU know. Most people would be terrified if they knew how little they know, believe me...and they'd have to reassess a whole lot of things. Their ego would find itself in real peril, and when the ego is in peril it attacks.