Exactly, d...

Those "average white guys" are who I was referring to as "Southern Man" in my post above... Southern Man lives everywhere... Not just the South and these are the very people who Boss Hog should be very afraid of because these are the folks who when they turn on you, you ain't gonna get them back without major sacrifices...

And Barry...

Right on... Yes, therwe is a correlation between spending on programs and poverty.... I believe that there are some folks here who either are or were very recently of the opinion that what we've been talkin' about is some kinda "handout system"... That won't work... You know it, d knows it, Janie knows it and I know it... Yes, folks talk about education... Fine... But in order to get an education it ***does*** involve both health care and child care and some renatal assistence...

When I was in socail work I never met a mother who wanted to be worse off in 5 years... It's just hard... Heck, it's hard enough for middle class families to get their kids educated...

But theunderlieing problem is jobs... The "system", as define above, isn't manufacturing jobs with livable wages right now no matter how qualified the general population...

This is the other half of the contract... We are going to have to put some laws on the books that force corporations to pay lvable wages to workers where ever those workers might be... If they had to do that then they would hire Americans and there would be hope within the rabnks of the poor that making the sacrifices to get training or education would have a pay-off...

Right now, what is the incentive... Poor folks ain't stupid and they are looking at the working class and seein' it getting screwed and thinking, "Hey, why bother"...

So like I siad before... We need progtrams and we need to reel the corporations back in...

If we are not willing to do that I think that the US will one day look very much like Haiti where the rich live like prisoners in their compounds and cannot leave without body guards...

Bobert