The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #100863   Message #2029693
Posted By: Joe Offer
19-Apr-07 - 01:59 AM
Thread Name: BS: Why should anyone believe in 'God'?
Subject: RE: BS: Why should anyone believe in 'God'?
Well, Hazel, Jesus is or isn't the Son of God because he is or isn't - not because some book says he is.

Do I believe what the Bible says? Yes, I believe the Bible is an accurate statement of the faith experience of believers who knew God through their faith. And yes, I am inspired by their experience and have learned from it and follow it, especially the life and teachings of Jesus.
Is it an accurate historical document? No, but it certainly has great historic value.
Is it an accurate scientific or paleontological document? Heavens, no.
Is it an accurate moral guide? Well, it can be, with a good lot of understanding and interpretation. The words of Jesus from the Sermon on the Mount and Matthew 25 are a very good moral guide for everybody, believers and unbelievers alike, with little need for "interpretation. " The ancient Jewish laws are a mixed bag, and Paul seems to have some moral hangups.

Are Allah and God the same metaphysical being? Yes, God has many names and many definitions - and all of those, while valid and worthwhile perspectives, are not adequate to describe a truly transcendent God who is also within us. Makes me think of When All Thy Names Are One, by Bob Zentz.

I believe the Koran lists Jesus as a disciple of Allah
I don't know that I would use that terminology because I come from a different faith tradition, but I can see truth in that. I've read parts of the Koran and found truth in it. I've read Sufi Islam poets like Hafiz and Rumi and found lots of truth in them. It's my understanding that the Koran considers Jesus to be a prophet of Allah.

If so why are Christians and Muslims at war with each other?
I think it's generally the fundamentalists who wage war because of religion. Fundamentalists, by definition, think in absolutes - and people who think in absolutes tend to be intolerant of those who think differently. If you read the Sufi mystics of Islam and the Christian mystics and the Jewish mystics and those who have found serenity in whatever religious tradition, you'll find they all say more-or-less the same thing - and peace and tolerance and justice for the oppressed are an intrinsic part of their lives.

So, Frank, you don't think atheists think like fundamentalists? Agnostics certainly don't, but atheists and fundamentalists both tend to think in absolutes, in blacks and whites with no shades of gray, believing their view correct and all others incorrect. Atheists and fundamentalists have a very similar definition of God - again, defined in absolute terms. Atheists reject that God, and fundamentalists bet the farm on Him(/Her??).

Those who are in the middle aren't quite so sure of themselves. Some have had what they consider to be experiences of God, and some haven't - but they just aren't completely certain either way. Those who believe in a God have varying levels of a foggy notion of something transcendent, something just beyond their grasp, something they are able to touch momentarily now and then - but in reaching and exploring, they find meaning in life and they find a reason to hold onto ideals and to strive for justice and peace. They express their faith in a different language, a language of song and story and poetry - not a language of logic and absolutes.

Even though their faith may be very important to them, those people in the middle aren't going to want to convert you. They'll do their best to live their lives with integrity. If their way of living is attractive to you, they'll be happy to have you join them. If not, that's OK. On the other hand, it's very hard for such people to defend their faith, because their faith isn't expressed in the language of logical defense. It's something different altogether. All they can say is that if the way they live seems to make sense to observers, then maybe their faith also makes sense - that's about as close as they can get to defending their faith.

Another thing - I think most believers on that middle path will admit to the possibility that there may be no God - that hasn't been their experience, but it's certainly possible. Vice-versa for agnostics.
Can atheists accept that there may be a God? Can fundamentalists accept that there may be NO God? No, because they see things in absolutes.

-Joe-