Bill D: "Life is meaningless from the point of view of the universe in general"

Err, does the universe have a point of view? ;-)

Frank: "I think this thread has degenerated into a discussion by religious people about their religion.
Ed, my initial premise is right I believe. There can be no intelligent discussion when it's predicated on metaphysical beliefs that don't allow for any other point of view"

Frank, Frank..the thread title was 'why should anyone believe in God?' Why do you use the word 'degenerated'? Are spiritual and religious beliefs below contempt for you? We are all - atheists / humanists and christians alike - trying to answer the thread question in the best way we can. The atheists may be saying 'you shouldn't believe in something that doesn't exist' while those with some religious inclination and spiritual experience are trying to say 'you should believe in God because it's in your own interest'.

And we're all of course going to refer to the sources that make sense to us. The atheist will stick to the empirical sciences first of all, as he seeks physical evidence. The Christian will refer to the Bible, since we believe it contains the explanations of what difference belief in God will make to your life. No one is stopping you from having your point of view, but surely that does not imply I have to agree with your point of view or all your terms of reference in order for the discussion to be 'intelligent'.

Perhaps it would also be useful to once again make a distinction between institutional religious practice, and spiritual beliefs. As Joe has pointed out, the Catholic church has its problems, and there isn't uniform consent among Catholics over all the teachings etc., There is also a lot more questioning of central authority than in the past, but that has happened more in the secular world too (though this may not always be apparent in some of the media!)