Countess,
From conversations we had with older singers who have given us local, more recent songs, the authorship of these appeared not to have been important. The information we usually got was "I think it may have been......" We always put this down to disinterest by the singers, though it may have been an attempt by some authors to remain 'anon'. The main concern of the singers seemed to be that they should not give offense to the subjects of the songs. Our neighbour (aged 80+, now dead) visited us regularly with scraps of paper and notebooks containing songs which had been composed during his lifetime, insisting that we should keep them safe for him. I can't remember him ever being able to supply an author for them except perhaps for a couple he had a hand in making. One song he gave us, on a highly respected member of the community, a doctor who, (about 60 years ago) demanded money for drink at gunpoint, went on a drunken tear and was barred from every pub in town, was handed over with the words "Don't show this to anybody until after I'm dead".
Hard to tell about newly written songs nowadays as few local people are singing here and even less (if any), are writing them.
Up to thirty-odd years ago there was still a healthy singing and song-making tradition. The great bulk of the songs were about emigration. The advent of the portable recorder more or less guaranteed that the origins of the songs can now be traced and also that they remain unaltered.
Nowadays, there are a small, rapidly diminishing number of people known as songwriters (Con 'Fada' O'Driscoll, Fintan Vallelly, Tim Lyons – none of whom are from Clare) writing songs using traditional styles on subjects such as corrupt politicians, moving statues, and turtles being washed up on shore during the Willie Clancy Week (oh- and spoons players at sessions).
WLD (why do my fingers want to type WMD?)
I, and traddies like me didn't invent the terms 'folk' or 'traditional', we (in our blindness) merely took up the long established and accepted definition and, until a better one comes along, will continue to do so. This does not mean that the definition should not be re-considered in the light of new information, but this has, to my knowledge, not happened. Rather, what has taken place is a total abandoning of any definition – summed up beautifully by one contributor to the subject with "words mean what I want them to mean".
If there is an alternative definition which would include Ralph McTell, Derek Brimstone, Steve Tilson et.al., please point it out (sorry; for a definition to be valid it has to be accepted by enough people to make it workable – that's how language works).
In the meantime, I would be grateful if you didn't misrepresent what I have to say by adding your own twist. While "Isolated" gypsy sites gives a nice ring of exotic romanticism to my approach, Hackney; Mile End Road; Heathrow Airport, Swiss Cottage, under the Hammmersmith Flyover, and all the other urban Travellers' sites we worked on were far from "isolated". It's a little difficult to hang on to any romantic notions on a rat-infested site in the East End of London (not, I hasten to add, the fault of the occupants).
And once again let me re-iterate, my opinions were formed by talking and listening to singers and not from my bookshelves as you once suggested. Our work with Travellers, small farmers, carpenters and rural labourers (we really didn't imagine them)has only served to indicate that by-and-large the 'traddies' got it more-or-less right.
Les From Chorlton (is that Cum-Hardy?)
Why should gaining knowledge, 'taking responsibility', or singing well stop us from 'having fun'? I certainly agree that the collapse of the folk scene is worthy of another thread - though if you start it, please try and make it last for two weeks as we'll be sunning it up in Sardinia till then.
Jim Carroll