I manage to get to a few folk venues when I visit the UK - many of you know me as well.

To my mind there is still a good folk music scene both in the UK and the USA and I have seen an encourging number of young people showing an interest in the music over the past few years.

I came into folk late, about seven years ago, so can't say that I have any experience of the real hay days. The first club I went to folded as a result of the infiltration of a group of people who would have better suited an acoustic/open mic session. Their idea of a performance was Beatles and Oasis - the latter played and sung very badly. The closest they came to my idea of folk was 'Those Were The Days' sung with the 'appropriate' extras like trilling laughter at one point. They were clearly not interested in folk music as they talked their way through most of the other singers' pieces and they gradually bought in more of their ilk. It wasn't too long before we were told that we were no longer welcome in that pub.

In the town I lived in the folk became very insular. Everybody had their bits they would do and very rarely did more than one or two of them produce something new. It wasn't until I expanded my horizons as a result of the Mudcat that I realised what a rich vein of wonderful music was out there.

OK, in some clubs there are some who do not perform well but at least they are out there and doing it, not sitting waiting to be entertained by someone else. One advantage of the so-called 'dross' is that they might just encourage others to try their hand if they see that these people don't get run out of town on a rail. Can you imagine just how intimidating it can be to listen to a whole group of very good singers and then to be asked if you want to sing? I doubt that, if that had been the cae, I would ever have opened my mouth. For me, Folk Music is about songs being sung by people, not performers. I've heard some of the original recordings of 'authentic' folk singers and, in the opinion of some members of this forum, they probably wouldn't pass muster today.

I agree about the teeenage angst songs - heard a few of those in my time as well. Usually, those types don't stay around a folk session too long as the rest of the music is not to their taste. It also irritates me when a singer forgets the words half way through a song or stops to bemoan the fact that they forgot a verse. I'm one of what my husband calls "those f@#^%&g book people" and, if I am not totally certain I'll remember a song I haven't sung in a while or that is newly learned, the words will be there, just in case.

I agree with Joe on the turn that this thread has taken. Quite why there was a need for such unpleasantness I really don't know. It certainly became thread drift with a vengeance.