How do you know how well or otherwise I can play or sing?

Tootler, I don't but next time I'm in Newcastle I might find out if I can work out who you are. This is far from the point. What I was saying about bashing out any old shit cos it's 'good enough for f*lk' is an all-too-common damaging attitude which constitutes just one strand of what has gone wrong with the 'clubs'. Those who advocate such lack of respect for the music know who they are, or would if they acknowledged just how counter-productive what they laughingly term 'inclusivity' is. If elitism = excellence, long live elitism.

These days you'd be hard put to find me in a club at all, so no need to worry much about bumping into me. There are other, infinitely preferable places. This year I have been to just two clubs (and two of the best in the land at that) yet was still subjected to crap floorsingers. I don't think we were talking about singarounds and sessions in this thread but venues where punters pay. Everyone has to start somewhere and the informal session is more like where a first effort should be tried out. Even so, I'll repeat, DON'T sing or play out till you can. Only you and your bedroom walls should witness the agonised practising, duff notes and forgotten lyrics. Not punters in a public place.