Thanks for chiming in, Mick. I think your observation that the unions (at least the big ones) became institutions, combined with your discrimination between institution and movement, is both astute, and generalizable to all other dialectics around social welfare in general, and, in keeping with the topic of this thread, the conditions that lead to and maintain the state of being poor in particular. I phrase it like that instead of saying 'poverty' to acknowledge the millions of people and families in this country whose income and resources well exceed the official 'poverty line' but who are poor nonetheless.

Gonna go cogitate in my dreams.

Janie