I have said before in this very thread that pubs are closing at a rate of 50 a month anyway. The ones most affected are village pubs like the ones in your examples but urban ones are dissapearing alarmingly too. The reasons range from the availability of cheaper booze elsewhere to the effectiveness of the drink driving campaign. Most people who have stopped going in pubs however, if you would care to use google one more, do not go to pubs because they believe that they are no longer pleasant places to be in. They are going to restaurants, cafes and various other places as well as staying at home. If the landlords and breweries want to blame the smoking 'ban' (which as I said is NOT a ban but a restriction) for their own inadequacies then that is their prerogative but please don't expect everyone to swallow that yarn.

The latest CAMRA survey is predicting that an extra 7 million - yes that is 7,000,000 - people will visit pubs due to the 'ban'. Look at this recent article from an independant source (Money Week) for one view of many that refutes your assertion that it has had a bad effect elsewhere. Blaming someone else, particularly the government, is the easy option but not I'm afraid, always the right one.

An apology though - I listed ASH as pro when it should have of course been anti-smoking. Sorry for any confusion and for being a pillock over preaf rooding.

As to arguing and mumbling that you were right. Firstly, I would never mumble you were right. If you were and it did indeed prove to be the complete disaster you predict I will not mumble. I will sing it from the top of blackpool tower where I shall also be showing my arse. You are of course quite right that we should not be arguing. You should be shouting at the people who want to blame anyone and anything else for their failures rather than admitting that they could, just maybe, have run their pubs a bit better.

Cheers

Dave