GUEST,sparticus

Snail, make it clear that you don't think that Grimmy is a racist.

Looking back through Grimmy's post has been a strange and disturbing exercise. What is clearest about him is that he is deeply confused. He seems to contradict himself frequently.

A while ago I said -

Chastising an entire community for the behaviour of one individual is racism.

a statement I'm happy to stand by.

Grimmy

It may be true, LTS, that you've "never known ANY people (other than upper class little white girls and their ponies) who have more respect for their horses than the Travelling people and their families.", but please believe me when I tell you that not at Appleby Fair they don't.
I've witnessed horses being kicked, punched, head-butted, whipped, beaten with sticks, run into the ground.
Indeed, the reason I no longer attend is because of the mindless cruelty inflicted on those poor beasts YEAR AFTER YEAR.
I can also tell you that you won't get many eye-witness accounts from the local residents (many of whom are my relatives) because they stay in their homes with all the windows and doors locked during the fair week.
That's the 'reality' of Appleby Horse Fair.

When someone challenged this, he replied -

Besides, the travellers are very adept (having been doing it since 1685) at conducting their activities out of sight of the authorities. There is an 'official' fair for the benefit of the visitors and an 'unofficial' one for the serious dealing - and that's the one very few people get to see.

In other words, travellers have been behaving like that for 320 years.

Where are the dog fighting images? The sheep stealing pics? The drunken fighting photos? The cottages with ivy around the door and human excrement on the lawn?

Somebody challenged this and he replied -

I am quite sure that outsiders are more than capable of sheep stealing, I will leave it to others to decide who are the most likely culprits.

Nicely ambiguous but it sounds to me as if he thinks it's the travellers.

If anyone really really wants cast-iron proof of horse cruelty (including deaths) at Appleby over a long period of time, then I will obtain it.
.............
But, for those in denial, I promise you, I promise you that I will produce evidence that horses have been killed at Appleby Horse Fair year after year after year.

To put it another way, I've made up my mind and now I'm going to look for the evidence.

Here is some of his cast-iron proof -

On Tuesday (June 6) a horse, which was being ridden by a traveller, was killed after it ran out in front of a Land Rover Discovery driven by a 19-year-old woman from Ingleton at Devil's Bridge, near Kirkby Lonsdale.
What's he saying? That the traveller did it deliberately?

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/opinion/viewarticle.aspx?id=510970
Half remembered incident in a letter to the paper. It won't stand up in court.

And, of course, there's the crowbar incident to which Grimmy seems to have been the only witness.

As far as I can see, he has only produced hard evidence for one other death. He said himself that road accidents don't count.

One of the most worrying things is the use of this link -
http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/search/display.var.951592.0.appleby_horse_fair_arrest.php

What is he trying to prove there? This is black propoganda at its most vile.

His claim that he is only drawing attention to this "evidence" to warn people that the opponents of the fair might use it to force its closure is laughable and only appeared some way into his posts.

So, yes, I find some of Grimmy's statements and his general attitude rascist.

OK, Grimmy, I'll meet you - at Appleby Horse Fair next year on condition that you stand up in front of a gathering of travellers and say everything you've said on this thread. You can explain to them why it's all for their own good.

By the way, you don't have to be a hero to take a stand against racism. Anyone can do it if they have a modicum of respect for their fellow human beings.