I told you it described nothing like a large army of contractors waging a privatised war in Iraq.

1. Sorry - I forgot - just because you say it is so - it has to be so.

Try reading again the paragraph beginning "Iraqi officials have consistently complained about the conduct of Blackwater and other contractors - and the legal barriers to their attempts to investigate or prosecute alleged wrongdoing".

Now if the whole of those two paragraphs do not describe contractors waging a private war - what the hell do they describe?

2.Believing Rumsfeld was "an unofficial messenger" is like believing the first 50,000 American troops in Vietnam were merely "advisers".

In August 18, 2002, in an MSNBC article entitled "Rumsfeld Key Player in Iraq Policy Shift" Robert Windrem wrote,"State Department cables and court records reveal a wealth of information on how U.S. foreign policy shifted in the 1980s to help Iraq. Virtually all of the information is in the words of key participants, including Donald Rumsfeld, now secretary of defense.

Or you could look at "The new information on the policy shift toward Iraq, and Rumsfeld's role in it, comes as The New York Times reported that the United States gave Iraq vital battle-planning help during its war with Iran as part of a secret program under President Reagan even though U.S. intelligence agencies knew the Iraqis would unleash chemical weapons".

In her article "Reaping the Grim Harvest We Have Sown," Anne Summers reinforced this point:

In December 1983, Rumsfeld, then a special envoy to the Middle East appointed by President Reagan, travelled to Baghdad to inform Saddam Hussein that the United States was ready to resume full diplomatic relations with Iraq. A lengthy report in the Washington Post on December 30, 2002 based on analysing thousands of pages of declassified government documents and interviews with former policy-makers said that US intelligence and logistical support played a crucial role in shoring up Iraqi defences following Rumsfeld's visit.

Like I said I could fill the Mudcat servers with similar quotes. Of course Rumsfeld was just a messenger boy and all those journalists and newspapers were wrong and you are right.

Incidentally when questioned about this Rumsfeld seemed to have forgotten all about it!! You aren't Rumsfeld are you?

3.Are you asking about normalisation of diplomatic relations between Iraq and the USA? What sources says it occurred 12 days after the meeting? Let's see the meeting took place 19th/20th December, 1983 twelve days later would be 1st January, 1984. OK I see your reasoning, sources say that relations were normalised in 1984 so it must have been on 1st January 1984.

Err....no..the source is the Washington Post.....

Just 12 days after the meeting,on January 1, 1984, The Washington Post reported that the United States "in a shift in policy, has informed friendly Persian Gulf nations that the defeat of Iraq in the 3-year-old war with Iran would be contrary to U.S. interests and has made several moves to prevent that result."

But your maths were right - I will give you that....

I love the list of arms supplied - I suppose since it is a big list you believe it to be complete!!

You happened to have missed a few things out. Take a look here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,73292,00.html

Of course coming from Fox News it is clearly one of those lefty organisations that specialise in half truths.

" In 1985-90, the U.S. Commerce Department, for example, licensed $1.5 billion in sales to Iraq of American technology with potential military uses. Iraq was then getting Western support for its war against Iran, which at the time was regarded as the main threat to stability in the oil-rich Gulf region."

Of course coming from a well-known left-wing organisation like the Associated Press such a story is bound to be biased.

May 25, 1994, Senate Banking Committee report. In 1985 (five years after the Iraq-Iran war started) and succeeding years, said the report, ''pathogenic (meaning ''disease producing''), toxigenic (meaning ''poisonous'') and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq, pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce.'' It added: ''These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction.''

The report then details 70 shipments (including anthrax bacillus) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding, ''It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the United Nations inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program.''

Of course coming from the Senate Banking Committee such a report detailing US exports is bound to have an inherent left-wing bias.

Never saw this stuff on your list Teribus.

As for the helicopters they may have easily made a difference if they were using them to spray people with the chemicals exported as pesticides that Dow Chemicals supplied, or drop the cluster bombs that Cardoen supplied with CIA approval.

Never saw Dow Chemicals on your list Teribus - never saw Cardoen' cluster bombs.....

The fact is that the USA supplied Saddam with weapons including WMD's, and the change of policy announced by Rumsfeld in his role as special envoy (sorry messenger) was a big part of that.

Incidentally the more things change the more they stay the same....

thread.cfm?threadid=103857&messages=13#2120996

I wonder of anyone in the US military has ever of organised a piss-up in a brewery? Was it successful? Did anyone get a drink?