there was the session space as advertised in the Wrotham, which carried on well after the allotted time- i think it's horses for courses, Richard- the sessions in the sailing club developed organically into some very strong harmony singing. It depends who you are to accompany- I'm not precious, but do find unusual widdling off-putting when I'm trying to put over a new song, especially as anyone who arranges their material often alters the length or structure of bridges etc on purpose, which the accompanist cannot possibly guess. As you know, I've done a fair bit of it- even more offputting to those who perhaps are venturing into song for the first time, which Tom & Barbara actively encourage. I'm a widdler myself, on occasion, but find it quite acceptable not to in this setting. It's awkward for the performer to refuse, so I think John was doing his job! See you at Deal or Tenterden!