That is one of my main contentions, Barry. Folks keep justifying the actions of ICE, in conflict with the 4th Amendment, on the basis that we have a problem on the border, hence it is OK to violate the persons and rights to solve it. That isn't the rock upon which this country was built. Once you allow a government or an administration to do this, then the next step is but a moment away. It is why folks are misguided when they attack the ACLU. Civil liberties are a precious jewel, not to be carelessly tossed aside. And folks still haven't answered the question (although Bill started to) as to what exactly is the problem that is so pressing as to allow the 4th Amendment to be violated. He alludes to schools, hospitals, social services, but brings no facts to the table. If folks did, they would see that there is, indeed a problem, and one that needs addressing, but nothing that would justify automatic weapons, detention without cause/proof/justifiable suspician, fear, and inhumane treatment. And what really becomes apparent is that the administration and this Agency, is using the latent racist tendencies of the general public to misdirect their attention away from the real problem. It is easier for folks to point at "those people" than it is for them to realize that in their quest for low taxes, and no government involvement, and laws passed with no funding for enforcement of same, we have not only failed to improve the plight of the workers in Mexico, we have actually exacerbated the problem.

Sure we have to get control of the border, but let us not mix all this into one big stew. The same game they have played with Iraq (just saw the ad on TV this morning where a lady was linking 9-11 with victory in Iraq) on this issue. My wonderful Irish Gran used to tell me that when a man seemed a wee bit too cute and was trying to get ye to look to yer left, look right. These folks are trying to get you to look so carefully at the color of the skin, and throwing bogus, and specious, information out there, that you don't see that the real agenda.

Mick