LH, Bobert--

You are excellent debaters. I notice you phrased it "from Emancipation to the 1920's" there was virtually no progress for blacks. Ah, but that's not the point. The progress was in going from slavery to not being slaves. I would guess very few former slaves, to say the least, would have been eager to exchange the conditions in Reconstruction and after for slavery. But that is what you are asserting, if you are saying that freedom meant nothing or was even a step backwards--to former slaves.

If you had been a slave at the time, I suspect you would think differently. Just being able to move legally--without a law used to track you down, bring you back, and punish you would be worth quite a bit. As would not having your family split up by the whim of-- or economic pressure on-- your owner. I don't see why you don't realize that. Washington tried hard not to split up slave families. Jefferson--not so much. And on cotton and rice plantations it's obvious what the attitude would be.

Obviously we'll never know what would have happened if the Civil War had not resulted in the end of black slavery in the US. But consider that as late as the 1930's white men were desperate to avoid picking cotton. Johnny Cash, Bob Wills, and LBJ all picked cotton---and made damn sure they got tickets out of that kind of future.

If you don't think that as late as the 1930's whites would have been perfectly fine with having blacks pick their cotton--as slaves--you're deluding yourselves. If you don't think there is a difference between sharecropping and slavery, again you're deluding yourselves.

You may think this is an "emotional response" to the issue. So be it. But I believe it verges on the obscene to have a bunch of white males stroking their beards and agreeing, yes, in our considered opinion, emancipation was no progress for slaves. Bobert, I'm surprised at you for buying this line. LH--not so surprising--it may be just an intellectual exercise for him.

The thread started off fine--as a worthwhile source of information. But it's veered off course badly---and I wasn't the one who pulled it off course.