I think I agree with you Tom on both those points, but if we do it by email then it is your choice whether to re-put up here, and that will not look like me going on (and on, and on, and on, if you remember the Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah band) as Joe's blood pressure is probably getting a bit alarming right now - Lizzie can be very frustrating and hard to engage in a low-key rational way.... (NO, Lizzie, that is NOT libel, please believe me, I used to do libel clearances for several TV companies)