twice, rick. separated by a few years, but twice that i can remember.

rick's point about being critcized for trying to make people 'professional' is a good one. a good song circle can be a mix of those who make make money from their music-making, and those who do not. there are a whole lot of people out there, as we all know, who are fabulous musicians, but don't play or sing anywhere for money. there's nothing wrong with having high standards and expectations.

i think that perhaps the criticism might have more to do with the idea of whether or not one must have practiced a piece to a certain level before leading it in a group.

i'm sure that every circle is different in this regard, but i'll just say that at the toronto song circle, it is appreciated if the person leading a song knows it quite well, but if they don't, they can request someone else to lead it who might know it or remember it better. it's understood in the group that there are many of us who have other jobs and busy families, and that song circle might be one of those rare folk music breaks. it would be a shame , imho, to make participation in the circle something that people had to feel they'd had to do homework for in order to feel accepted.

there also has to be room for patience and time for growth. it's fabulous to watch someone's musical skills evolve. including one's own.

~black walnut