The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #106660   Message #2205621
Posted By: Little Hawk
30-Nov-07 - 12:52 PM
Thread Name: BS: China Running Out of Fuel
Subject: RE: BS: China Running Out of Fuel
Yes, that is interesting, Teribus. Russia is a bit like that too, I think, although they did attack both Poland and Finland in '39 (rather comparable in some ways to the Chinese moves on Tibet and Vietnam).

The Winter War (Finnish: Talvisota, Swedish: Vinterkriget, Russian: Çèìíÿÿ âîéíà, also known as the Soviet-Finnish War or the Russo-Finnish War[9]) began when the Soviet Union attacked Finland on November 30, 1939, three months after the invasion of Poland by Germany and the Soviet Union that started World War II. Because the attack was judged as illegal, the Soviet Union was expelled from the League of Nations on December 14. Soviet leader Joseph Stalin had expected to conquer the whole country by the end of 1939, but Finnish resistance frustrated the Soviet forces, who outnumbered the Finns 4:1 in men, 200:1 in tanks and 30:1 in aircraft[4]. Finland held out until March 1940, when the Moscow Peace Treaty was signed ceding about 10% of Finland's territory (excluding its population) and 20% of its industrial capacity to the Soviet Union.

The results of the war were mixed. Soviet losses on the front were tremendous, and the country's international standing suffered, especially following its earlier attack on Poland. Even worse, the fighting ability of the Red Army was put into question, a fact that contributed to Adolf Hitler's decision to launch Operation Barbarossa. Finally, the Soviet forces did not accomplish their primary objective of conquest of Finland but gained only a slice of territory along Lake Ladoga. The Finns retained their sovereignty and gained considerable international goodwill.




Perhaps the Russians and Chinese, both being nations which have a vast hinterland with much relatively uninhabited space in large parts of it, tend to think more inwardly or defensively, whereas nations which have a small amount of land but a highly effective military tend to think more aggressively and aim at expansion into distant areas.

For example: Spain, Holland, Great Britain, Portugal, Japan, Italy, France, Germany....these were all nations with a relatively small amount of land and a high density population...and their history shows that they all set out aggressively at one time or another to establish empires far from home.

To do that one usually needs a very good navy, and all those countries made efforts in that direction. Of those the British were ultimately the most successful, establishing what amounted to naval sumpremacy in the world between about 1815 and 1931.

China never had much of a navy in modern times, although they did assemble a huge fleet in ancient times when they attempted to conquer Japan...and lost much of it in a hurricane.

Russia was always hampered in having an effective navy, since they had to split it between the Baltic, the Far East, and the Black Sea...a logistical nightmare...and that nightmare was fully realized when they were utterly defeated by Japan in the early part of the 20th century.

Under the Soviets the Russians finally did build a very powerful fleet, second only to America's, but it has never (fortunately) engaged in a war with its chief rivals.

My impression is that the Russians and Chinese tend to think primarily in defensive terms. They usually fight border campaigns that are aimed at securing and protecting their own border areas and protecting the heartland through establishing buffer states. It's a different psychology from that which motivated the Japanese to go charging into Korea, China, Manchuria, and the South Pacific...or that which motivated England, Holland, and Spain into planting their flags on every piece of distant real estate their ships could sail to.