The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #106685   Message #2209006
Posted By: Bee
05-Dec-07 - 08:29 AM
Thread Name: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
It interests me that I see so many complaining that Dawkins is embarassingly agressive or loud or confrontational. Considering the vast numbers of noisy and belligerent preachers, imams, and so on, that populate the planet and shout out their condemnations, isn't it sensible that at least a few atheists make at least a little counter-noise?

To Susan:

There's no question that there are many preachers and ministers and priests who work hard and are genuinely compassionate towards people, as I am sure you and your husband are.

You may feel, when hearing from atheists and agnostics, that you personally are the babies being tossed with the bathwater. Perhaps you are, but that bathwater is very, very dirty, toxic, and needs to go. You babies need to have your parents (denominational leaders) clean that water up.

Especially in the US, of all developed nations, the stagnant bathwater of religion is visibly hindering more good than it is promoting. Research becomes controversial and funding for it endangered if it is seen to conflict with religious views based on the cultures of people centuries ago. Your countrymen won't elect a politician who doesn't subscribe to (or at least lies about) some form of God belief, thus eliminating many able persons. Religion informs continued legal and social discrimination against homosexuals. Religious leaders make wild or simply wrong pronouncements which are believed by thousands, if not millions, of your compatriots. Many individuals have had disastrous experiences as a result of their beliefs and the support of the church they belong to, ranging from refusing medical treatment to sexual abuse and harmful 'exorcisms'.

It's easy enough to distance yourself from these effects of religion, and say "We're not like that". Nevertheless, at centre, you are part of an enormous collective of God believers. Atheists make up a tiny percentage of the population of the US, and yet the religious often respond to atheists who speak out with anger and condemnation, and even some atheists feel threatened by noisy atheists.

I think it is entirely possible for non believers and believers to learn from each other; for the religious to see the non religious as offering checks and balances against the unreasoning excesses religion is capable of promoting. If we say the Emperor has no clothes, then perhaps you should check your garments, instead of immediately insisting that you are, in fact, clothed in raiment of silk and gold. From the religious, atheists can perhaps learn a thing or two about community, although I'd bet most of us are thoroughly involved with our communities already. (In my rural community, several of us unbelievers readily assist in church inspired events which we see as contributing to the good of the community: I've baked many a cookie, repaired stained glass for small recompense, and trotted out plates at suppers.) We can get along, but people need to think more and be defensive less.