Amos "Additionally your model requires that you postulate the long extension of positive affect by an entity who died many centuries back. This makes the proposition (as you said above) unprovable"

I said the existence of God cannot be demonstrated according to the terms of empirical science as it currently stands (or words to that effect). Jesus did die centuries back, but as you surely know, the central idea in Christianity is that He then rose from the dead, stayed on earth in corporeal form for 40 days afterwards before ascending to heaven. Therefore for Christians He is not dead, that is to say He has transcended it. Death is also the end of the 'mortal coil', not the end of the spirit that dwells in it.

You've got a point about the placebo effect, though I would posit that it's effects are somewhat overstated. I doubt any doctor would risk using placebo drugs in chemotherapy, even if the patient had no idea they had been substituted.

Bee "To be sure, I know a man who ... by becoming a follower of Islam... Jesus, of course, did not figure in this conversion"

Yes, as we both point out, Islam does not see Jesus as divine. But from a Christian perspective, it makes perfect sense: Jesus is also fully God (the mystery of the Holy Trinity).
But Catholic (and unless I am mistaken, Protestant) theology also allows for many people outside of Christianity to find God. I forget the name of the doctrine, but basically it states that people who earnestly seek God, even from outside the monotheistis framework, will find Him. They may not even realise what it is they seek. A good example is Lame Deer, that I mentioned a few posts back. From reading what he says and his view of what he calls the Great Spirit, I have little doubt he is describing the same entity with which I am familiar (as far as I familiar with it).

Ringslinger....... oh dear, oh dear. What can I say? I always feel a bit apprehensive on these threads since they always seem to circle back to the same point sooner or later. And that's a chance for some people to use the opportunity to hurl insult at God. Though why anyone should want to insult something they don't believe exists is a mystery to me sometimes.
I don't take offence easily and I'm not *too* bothered about jibes against followers of Christ. It's par for the course apparently (though a bit saddening). What I do take exception to is is when someone gratuitously tries to offend God by juxtaposing reference to Him with the facile or scatalogical. Try and bear in mind that even if you don't believe in God some people (like myself) regard Him as a true and loyal friend. Try and think how you would feel if I were to belittle and jeer at one of your friends or one of your family. Wouldn't you feel disappointed in me at the very least? Wouldn't you want to walk away? That's what I'm tempted to do here. I wouldn't want to be party to any forum which becomes a means of insulting God, so please don't drive me away and maybe we can engage in rational discussion. And that goes for anyone else thinking of making 'God jokes' as well.