"That's exactly what they did in the old days. Folk didn't sit around analyzing every song to the nth degree. There were no rules or 'definitions'. They sang what they damn well liked (though they did have a preference for the 'old' songs)."
Meant to make a point on this earlier.
One of the problems in assessing what the older singers thought about the songs is that nobody ever considered it worthwhile to ask them.
Apart from small pockets of information, there is very little on record, or if there is, it isn't accessible.
We carried out a fair amount of this work, but as far as the tradition was concerned, it was very late in the day so I'm not sure how valid it was.
Walter Pardon had no doubts what as to what was meant by 'folk song'; there are miles of tape in National Sound Archive of him talking about it. He was very clear about the differences between say Music Hall, pop songs of the early 20th century and 'folk' (a word he used regularly). It has been suggested that he picked this up from the revival, but the notebooks in which he was writing out his family's songs, dated 1948, show that he divided the songs into traditional and non-traditional back then. I quoted him at length in something I wrote for Musical Traditions (By Any Other Name - a reply to Mike Yates' 'The Other Songs - Enthusiasms section).
Mary Delaney, a blind Travelling woman with a large repertoire of mainly ballads or narrative songs, referred to her traditional material as 'my daddy's songs' even though she had only learned about half-a-dozen from him. She also had a repertoire of C&W songs which she refused to sing for us as she said they were worthless and had only learned them because they were the ones she was asked for in the pub. When she first sang 'Lord Randal (Buried In Kilkenny)' she told us we wouldn't like it because it was too old.
Traveller Mikeen McCarthy said he didn't know if there was any traditional/non-traditional difference, but it turned out that when he sang the former he had pictures of them in his head ("like being in the movies"), with the latter - no pictures.
Here in West Clare the older singers described the traditional songs as 'traditional' or 'come-all-ye's'.
I know there was some of this work done in the US with Texas Gladden and Sarah Cleveland; I would be interested to know if it has been done elsewhere.
To whoever suggested that jazz enthusiasts 'just get on with it' without bothering about definitions - you must be joking. I've just read Humphrey Littleton's book where he tells of being booed for playing non-traditional music at a concert and there is footage of a very unwelcome R&B performer at Newport on the film 'Jazz on a Summer's Day'.
Peace.
Sorry about my knee-jerk reaction earlier - always happens when somebody suggests that thought and enjoyment don't mix.
Ed McBain's 87th Precinct used to be my reading till I finished them all
Jim Carroll