The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #107407   Message #2243251
Posted By: Mrrzy
23-Jan-08 - 08:36 PM
Thread Name: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
Interesting, M.Ted. Lessee:

It would seem that first there is the IDEA, then DATA, which is drawn by LOGIC to a CONCLUSION. Yes, idea can come first, but sometimes the idea comes from the data, as in, I can't seem to draw a conclusion from these data, maybe I can think of another way to get more data and clarify something. Or, hey, these data lead me to a completely different idea than I had when I first asked the question.

But where does the IDEA come from? Oops, already answered.

Can DATA exist without an IDEA? Well, there are data all over the place, but we would just call them facts, or something, if we weren't trying to look at them as data (with an idea in mind). For instance, ungulates have various shaped hooves, which is data for their evolution, but they had the hooves long before humans evolved to wonder how the horses did, I hope that makes sense...

Can there be a CONCLUSION without an IDEA? Sure - at least the conclusion could be a different idea than the idea that started the data collection...

Can there be LOGIC with neither an IDEA or DATA? Now that is more interesting. Would logic exist without humans to use it? I would say yes, just like the data did. I would say that it was true before humans evolved the idea of equivalence that if A=B and B=C then A=C. Just Pi was equal to 3.14etc before we figured it out. I guess I would call logic a discovery rather than an invention. Arguments?

And, if there is no need for a CONCLUSION, is there no need for LOGIC? That is also an interesting one. Conclusions will happen whether we need them or not - we can't help it, with our minds. But without logic we would have a hard time drawing the correct inferences - but I wouldn't go collect data if I wasn't interested in drawing some conclusion or other, would you?

VERY interesting thoughts. Slightly afield, but still fascinating.