The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #108258   Message #2255668
Posted By: Nerd
07-Feb-08 - 01:47 AM
Thread Name: John Lennon - Folk Singer
Subject: RE: John Lennon - Folk Singer
Gene,

If you're looking, it's not difficult to find Peter's music. You can hear samples of it here

Enjoy!

To clarify my point, Walter Pardon was a traditional singer from Norfolk who died in 1996. He was probably the best-known and best-documented traditional English singer of all time. AND he was a great influence on most revivalists, including the aforementioned Mr. Bellamy, who championed Walter back in the day. So no, I didn't just make it up.

"Chimney Pot" survived in tradition at least until 1996. I can't be sure if it's still sung today. My point is simply that such songs do survive in tradition, without "intelligent" lyrics. I think it may be the case that in folk REVIVALS, "intelligence" of lyrics is a quality that helps songs survive, but not so much in oral tradition.

If this one doesn't convince you, you can take any number of folksongs. How about "groundhog"?

Yonder comes Sal with a snicker and a grin, groundhog.
Yonder comes Sal with a snicker and a grin, groundhog.
Yonder comes Sal with a snicker and a grin,
Groundhog grease around her chin, groundhog.

Groundhog grease running down her chin, groundhog.
Groundhog grease running down her chin, groundhog.
Groundhog grease running down her chin,
She licked it off and swallowed it again, groundhog.

This is a perennial favorite in the American mountain south, in the Appalachian and Ozark regions. Everyone knows it, and that's been the case for over a hundred years. It was the first song Frank Proffitt senior heard his father Wiley play on the banjo. (Wiley was born in 1874.) Frank's son, Frank Jr., learned it from his dad. Frank Junior died in 2005. It's not got overly intelligent lyrics, nor a hummable melody, but it has other qualities that help it survive. People enjoy eating groundhogs, and they also identify with the critters (like Cajuns with crawfish), so they sing silly old songs about them.

Ruth, thanks for backing me up on Cecil Sharp. Like Child, Sharp is re-made by many folkies in their own image; "if he were around today, Child would be studying rap" and the like. We can only assume the folkies don't actually read what these scholars have written. Which, actually, is fair enough...it takes a certain kind of specialization to even care what they thought. But don't expound on what they'd be doing today without a little thought!