"The entire history of Israel, including the events leading up to Israel's declaration of itself as a country, has been fictionalized by the leaders of that country. You have bought the fiction hook, line, and sinker, Teribus." - (CarolC)

Have I really CarolC? That may well be your opinion, but it most certainly is not borne out in examination of relevant circumstances and events.

"You have also swallowed their hatred of and contempt for Arabs in general, and Palestinians in particular." - (CarolC)

"Hatred" and "Contempt" for Arabs CarolC? I most certainly feel such for any group of terrorists or those who support them, but I personally do not hate Arabs in general or feel contempt for them. Oh by the bye CarolC if you want to read what real hatred and contempt for Palestinian Arabs is read what Prince Faisals opinion of them was in 1919.

"It doesn't surprise me, however, that someone with a 'might-makes-right' supremacist philosophy like yours would feel a kinship with those within the Israeli leadership who are your philosophical cousins." - (CarolC)

Now then CarolC I was born and bred in Scotland. Now going back in history the part of the country that my ancestors came from was at war continuously for over 350 years. For much of that time the Scots were on the receiving end of that stick, so we understand all about the "might-makes-right" philosophy. You on the otherhand are American, your forefathers travelled to America from another continent, on arrival they fought, killed, disposessed and having claimed the land of others settled on it, prospered and enjoyed the fruits of their conquest, so you too understand all about "might-makes-right" philosophy - From a slightly different perspective than me - True? So when you come out with your usual emotional claptrap remember that little difference.

"However, the facts are that Israel committed numerous acts of terrorism during the period leading up to the time of their declaring independence, killing many civilians and also British government officials in the process." - (CarolC)

Tel Hai - 1st March 1920 Arab attack on Jewish settlers. The attack was unprovoked, and was the first killing in what became a long line of them.

Nabi Musa Riots – 4th to 7th April 1920 second Arab attack on Jewish inhabitants of Palestine. The attacks were totally unprovoked and targeted unarmed civilians. The aftermath and in light of how the British react cause the Jewish community to look to themselves for their own defence - Haganah (meaning "Defence") is formed.

Jaffa Riots - 1st and 7th May 1921 third unprovoked Arab attack on Jewish inhabitants of Palestine. Again the attacks were totally unprovoked and targeted unarmed civilians.

"However, the facts are that Israel committed numerous acts of terrorism during the period leading up to the time of their declaring independence, killing many civilians and also British government officials in the process For this, they were rewarded with a country." - (CarolC)

Eh, No, CarolC, not quite.

1920 - Arabs attack Jews

1921 - Arabs attack Jews

1923 - Palestine Mandate territories split into "Palestine" where Jews are allowed to settle and "Transjordan" where Jews are not allowed to settle.

1929 - Arabs attack Jews

1936 to 1939 - Arabs attack Jews and British in what becomes known as the Arab Revolt. Good heavens to Betsy, the British and the Jews fight back - Arabs don't like it. Brits are now convinced that Arabs and Jews will never share Palestine so look for alternative scenario.

1937 - British Peel Commission come up with first two state plan. This Plan is accepted by the Jews and rejected by the Arabs. This by the way is the best offer the Arabs are ever going to get.

1939 to 1945 - Minor stramash locally known as the Second World War, during which the "leader" of the Palestinian Arabs was best mates with Adolf Hitler. He returns to Egypt at the end of the war a wanted war criminal.

1947 - Former British League of Nations Mandate about to expire so UN proposes a two state solution. The Jews accept and again the Arabs reject it.

1948 - British Mandate expires, no solution so Jews declare independence based on the UN proposal and the State of Israel comes into being. It is immediately recognised by both the United Nations and by the United States of America and welcomed as a member of the United Nations.

I think that the Jews were rewarded with a country because they were willing to live at peace with their neighbours and showed willingness to compromise in order to reach a solution. The Arabs on the otherhand were not prepared to do either. They were still running on the old 1920 war cries of:

"Independence! Independence! Palestine is our land, the Jews are our dogs!" and their other favourite of the time, "Muhammad's religion was born with the sword".

So yes CarolC, after enduring damn near ninety years of their bullshit, "when Palestinians commit acts of terrorism, their homes, women, children, civil infrastructure... all get bombed to smithereens,and they are denied a country because 'we can't reward terrorism'. They know precisely what to do to end it and get on with life, they and only they can do it, it is entirely up to them.

I remember Wolfgang once drawing a comparison of Europe at the end of the Second World War and its problems with refugees and displaced people to the Arab-Israeli thing. He then gave his projection of what Europe would have been like if all Europe's refugees and countries had behaved like the Arabs and the countries of the Middle-East. I found it quite interesting.