Hmm.

If I seem tetchy, I have had a bad day - about 12 hours work on a Saturday! Also, I am taking relaxing-water now. (Organic gin: most inspiring).

John Hardly, there is a post of yours a fair lump back that seeks to assert that other minorities succeed, but not the African-American. That fails to allow for the history of slavery in the USA. Before you assert it (or its analogue) vis-a-vis the UK you should look up my old friend Vincent Nelson QC (and possibly listen to some of his court speeches if recordings exist).

Don/Big Mick - you are both of Irish descent. So I rather chortle to see you tearing strips off each other rather than off me for being English. But Don has experience of the English environment and its racism whereas Mick has the view in the USA. Both of you need to avoid submitting to cultural assumptions.

MG - there are some things that push my buttons, and your consistent propaganda across several threads that sex without a formal religious or civil licence is wrong and that the sin is visited upon the children is one of them. It is not a proper price of poverty to be chaste or to be condemned.

My two step-children (as a matter of law, not step-children) were both largely brought up without much money by a single (most of the time) mother (my late partner). One has just left Intel (with a large pay-off) where she was head of Europe in her department. The other got a first in philosophy. My own daughter with my late partner has a 2:1, a diploma in touring theatre management, a rising career in design licensing, several drama awards, and 3 very creditable rock bands to her name. I am proud of all of them.   I was proud of their mother too. I wish you would stop preaching that a woman's main virtue in life is to keep her hand on her ha'penny. Sex is a good thing. Do not deny it. (and no, I am not indulging in orgies every night: in fact my own life is a bit humdrum, but the principle is the thing)

Indeed, I wonder if you are not appearing to buy into the myth of the "black slut". If so you should be at least more careful.

But, Azizi, I still think (although, if you do not wish otherwise, I will argue alongside you in general) that you need to distinguish between appearance on the one hand and speech habits and behaviour on the other. I do not intend to imply that you need white support. I find that you put your point generally better, and with greater knowledge than I can, but I am still rather concerned at how many people here do not simply say that you are right and that a subtext of prejudice does seem to appear.