The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #109916   Message #2307285
Posted By: Richard Bridge
05-Apr-08 - 07:50 AM
Thread Name: Our ghastly folk tradition
Subject: RE: Our ghastly folk tradition
But no-one ever thought Mick Jagger - from down in the deep south - Dartford, via Richmond - had any direct knowledge of the cotton fields. And my memory insists that the Stones sang "step" not "stride" but I have not checked.

Gigi(II) and GJ - you should check the 1954 definition before you assert that it cannot deal with accretion to or modification of folk music and song. It can and does. It is a point that most of its critics miss, although it is there in the words. It is why Gelbhard is wrong in that particular assertion, although it may be open to discussion whether the idea of "folk" traditions was itself polluted by a romantic conception of the noble savage.

Once the 1954 definition or something similar is lost then the idea of a folk art is also lost, for the horse definition takes over. It is the same reason why Parliament failed so dismally to achieve a menaingful definition of "rave" music when it was trying to deal with the social problem of outdoor raves in the UK.

Wikipedia on taxonomy

We do need a term for things that are not folk but are a bit like it - and we need to know how like is like enough. I've been waiting for sensible suggestions on these two points for some years here and have seen none yet. Without them musicologists cannot study the characteristics of the forms of music. SWMBO of course ignores these points simply because in her fevered mind she thinks she saw someone perform who wasn't good enough for her (or maybe made an un-p-c joke about a woman) and would scrap the word and definition and replace it with nothing. The she substitutes petty insults (like "Silly Hat") for discussion or rationality. See above for examples.

But if there is a form of music to which Parris's foolish insults were addressed (absent which what he said meant nothing at all) then it is obviously the core 1954 definition English (1954 definition can apply to other cultures as well) that is insulted. If it were the traditions of any other culture that he insulted it would be thought as unacceptable as Boris Johnson's references to "picanninnies".