I'm afraid I don't feel able myself to contribute any more here. Having failed to make any progress on these topics in the past I know that further debate will only generate more misunderstanding.
Which is sad but probably true - and also a neat encapsulation of why f**k has the problems it does. If those who actively support it will fight like cats in a sack and display the sort of autistic pedantry, spitefulness and wilful petulance that this thread has thrown up, is it any wonder that those lucky enough to be outside the magic circle look in and thing 'What a bunch of wankers'?
I think Tom's has been one of the more reasoned voices on this thread but, yes, nearly 450 posts is bloody ridiculous. And no-one's brought in the horse yet...