Nigel, re comments about lets call them young successful folk artists, it might be worth noting that the negative comments come from both sides of what appears to be the GEFF line in the recent threads here.

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I think what happens a lot on this GEFF type of thread is they open with a strong comment which someone else responds to with an equally strong view from the other side and battle lines are drawn with each contributer finding themselves taking the side they might believe in most and attempting to show why the other side is wrong.

I don't think I've mentioned "the other side" (and I don't think me thinking TB was coming on to points he wasn't helped...) but let's try a sort of real world reality check from where I enjoy folk music.

Last Sunday night in our open to all Irish session, there was someone currently on the Newcastle degree course present. We also had a member of XIM. Some weeks, added to the mix, we have a guitar from Horses Brawl in this GEFF event.

Those who make money out of folk and study folk can and do get together for the enjoyment of folk and so far as I can tell the barriers that form in threads like these do not (at least with people I've met in that type of event) exist.

I was wondering (again) last night about trying to debate in these threads...