This is for Paul.

Hi mate,

Like you I'd want to encourage people to start up clubs, but I'm not sure it's really fair just to say 'if you don't like it start your own.' The 'market' for folk is quite small, and many people already have an incumbent club in their patch. Starting another may just not be a sensible option - plus it's something not all have the gift or time for. It may be better to try to turn round a struggling club (point taken Henry about reasons for closure - though many manage to overcome those challenges on a scarily regular basis) than start from cold. There is an old saw in businesses; 'if you like what we do tell others, if you don't, tell us.' At the end of the day a club's 'success' (by whatever criteria you choose) comes down to the organisers, and above all the MC. It's all about the way a club is promoted (putting the right label on the tin and making sure people read it), how standards are managed (tact, encouragement, growth) and the welcome/charisma on the night. Last night I was in Robin Hood's Bay. The core 'folkies' are few - most of the audience are people who are still eating when the club starts and can't escape! But Jim does a fantastic job explaining what's happening and why - and they all stayed, sang, clapped and a good few bought CDs. On lady even plucked up courage to join in and sang Killing Me Softly - to thunderous applause. (She'll come again, she said).

KYFC is a really excellent example of a new start-up. Original thinking married to some time-tested ideas in a winning formula. But not everyone has the benefits of your location, personality and team.

I'm proud to count a large number of club organisers as close friends and I have massive respect for what they/you do. But I've sat long into the night with some, discussing the problem which has caused the rancour in this thread. It's really hard to balance the conflicting demands of this participation/performance equation, and though most manage it really well, a few don't (some don't think there's a problem, some do but have no idea what to do about it).

The solution, for me, is a gently pro-active approach to growth. There are ways that weaker performers (I believe we're talking about visitors rather than guests here) can be brought on. And there are things that can be done to bring newbies into the fold, even if their initial reaction is very negative.

I've put some of them onto the folkWISE tips page. What I'd prefer to see in this thread is ideas on how to solve the issue within the existing framework. I'm happy to add them to my page (I've added a few since this thread started). Then new starters can also benefit from that wisdom.