We all err. We should all try to think.

If we avoid debating "what is folk" - as I suggested, then there was one piece of stupidity above that I was pointing out (alas directed to "what is folk"). A horse definitioner seemed to think first that 1954 definitioners thought that the only songs that should be sung were folk songs (which is not the case) and second that because there was no agrarian society any longer that meant the definition of folk song was wrong (which is obviously not the case).

What I was trying to point out is that it seems to be much the same people who say that everything is folk who say that not everyone should be allowed to sing it (whatever "it" is). Do you understand now?

As Martin Carthy nearly said, the worst think you can do to traditional songs is not sing them. Much the same is true of contemporary songs, certainly if they are to become folk songs. So people must be free to sing them.   They must be encouraged to sing them. If they are discouraged and sniped at, the songs will not be sung, and we will hasten to the land of the big-screen television.

I must come to your club sometime Snail, it sounds great.