The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #111110   Message #2338634
Posted By: GUEST,Freethinker
12-May-08 - 04:01 PM
Thread Name: BS: Israel's Next War.
Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Next War.
"The UN partitioned the land at the end of the British Mandate. Partition would have worked--hopefully--had the Arab nations not attacked."

This is sheer speculation. There must have been a reason for Arab agression.

" That they lost and also lost land was their own (un)doing. Palestinans left, at first, on their own accord with the thought of returning when the "Zionist terrorists" were pushed into the sea. How unfortunate that it did not work out that way."

This is spin. There is no substantiation for this view. They were pushed out period.

"Later comes the 1967 war, then the Yom Kippor war. Let me ask---who started those battles?"

They were aggravated by both sides. There was a predisposition on the part of Israelis
at that time to forgo any peace process. It was a unilateral attack based on political
considerations that did not include involving the UN. As in most hostilities of a
national nature, the conditions for overreaction were set up years in advance.

"Moving to your Gaza comments. The Israelis left unequivocally. What happened ---"

Not true. There were strings attached and this had to do with the fact that Israel
was not able to relinquish its control in the area.

"Palestinians fought amongst themselves and then started shelling Israel. Even Egypt was, justifiably, incensed and forbade entry into their nation at that point."

Palestinians began to shell Israel because they felt intimidated by the pretense of
the Israeli's to give up their control of Gaza. It was an unfortunate and desperate move.

"Let us move to another thought now. Nuclear proliferation. Up to this point only Israel has kept Iraq, Syria, and Iran from those WMDs."

The leading export of Israel today is "security systems". Israel has motivated Iran to
want to build nuclear weaponry by its military saber-rattling. Israel has a larger stockpile of WMD's than any of these other countries who perceive that as a threat.

" Best thank your lucky stars for that. The USSR was a nation that one could deal with."

The USSR has a history of authoritarian and dictatorial policies. The very idea that one
can deal effectively with a nation that ignores human rights and proceeds along the lines of military competition is absurd.

"As to the comments by some other posters---Golan Hts. Again--who started that fiasco"

Revenge and blame is always passed on to the "enemy" without assuming any responsibility for the actions of an aggressor nation. This can be said for Israel as
well as the Mid-East aggressors.

"(and by the way there is a wonderful film on the subject of the reason they lost it---THE IMPOSSIBLE SPY).(The spy in question is now long deceased since he was executed by the Syrians and his body has still not been returned to Israel."

The idea of "spies" is redolent of a C movie.   

"As to dual citizenship. To the best of my knowledge quite a few nations allow that---Austria is one that I know of (and I turned it down given my personal history with that wonderful place which was so welcoming to Jews in the 1930s and on)."

Austria and Israel both share a history of aggression. The "Holocaust" was truly a
horrendous event but did not, in its wake, suggest revenge or reactionary militarism
but should have opened the eyes of humanity to a peaceful solution to the world's problems.

" My own view is that peace is possible--it always is if there is understanding on all sides and nations put self-interest aside in the quest for it."

It is not only possible but imperative if the world is not to be blown up. Should Israel make the mistake of a nuclear bombing of Mid-East countries, it would be contributing
to the destruction of understanding in the name of self-interest.

" So far it has not happened but it seems that now even Saudi Arabia is softening its position given their problems with some of their brethren. Jordan and only Jordan saw in advance the benefit of a mutual relationship with Israel---and wanted the Palestenians out of Jordan proper. Of course King Abdullah was assassinated So much for the Arab brotherhood."

Remember that the peace advocates in Israel, Rabin and Begin were both assassinated
by Israelis. Jimmy Carter is the only politician today who understands that if two
opposing sides want blood, they need to talk to each other. The avoidance of talks
with Hamas (which whether anyone likes it or not as the official elected representative
of Palestinians today) is futile to any peaceful cooperation.