The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #111301   Message #2348678
Posted By: Teribus
25-May-08 - 06:52 AM
Thread Name: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From the thread that CarolC referred me to:

"Do you then dispute ANY of the following facts???" - beardedbruce

"Yes, I dispute all of that, and they are not facts." – CarolC

Let's have a look at what CarolC says aren't facts:

Fact/Non-Fact 1:
May 17: Cairo Radio's Voice of the Arabs: "All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel."

What isn't a fact CarolC? Cairo Radio's Voice of the Arabs did broadcast that, there exists extremely clear recordings of that broadcast – Are you saying that they didn't? If so what grounds have you for saying that they didn't.

Fact/Non-Fact 2:
May 18: Voice of the Arabs announces: "As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is a total war which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence."

Again recordings of this broadcast prove it to be fact – "The sole method we shall apply against Israel is a total war which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence" – Now CarolC's contention is that Egyptian troop deployments were defensive. Couple of questions for you CarolC:

1.        If defensive in nature as you say why did Egypt demand the withdrawal of the UN Peacekeepers/Observers?

2.        If that sentence quoted from the Cairo Radio broadcast is "defensive in nature" I'd hate to heard what they would broadcast if they were being belligerent. "The sole method" that Egypt was going to apply against Israel was what CarolC?

Fact/Non-Fact 3:
May 18: Nasser announces blockade of Straits of Tiran in the Red Sea, severing Israel's southern maritime link to the outside world. Israel considers the closure an act of war. (US President Lyndon Johnson later says: "If a single act of folly was more responsible for this explosion than any other it was the arbitrary and dangerous announced decision that the Straits of Tiran would be closed.")

The closing of an International Waterway is considered to be a belligerent act by the United Nations – That CarolC is FACT, and there have been a number of international precedents where the UN have adjudicated such actions as acts of war.

Fact/Non-Fact 4:
May 20: Syria's defence minister (now president) Hafez el-Assad says: "Our forces are now ready not only to repulse the aggression but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united ..."

Clearly stated, there can be no denying what the man said, it is down on record. Now explain to us how someone being ready to "initiate the act of liberation itself" is being defensive? Who were the Syrian forces massed on the Golan going to "liberate"? What do you understand as being the meaning of the word "initiate"?

Fact/Non-Fact 5:
May 27: Nasser: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."

Just how would Nasser achieve that objective defensively CarolC?

Fact/Non-Fact 6:
May 30: Nasser : "The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel."

Statement of fact CarolC, are you saying that Nasser did not say that on May 30th 1967? Or are you saying that he lied and that the armies of those nations were not poised on the borders of Israel?

Fact/Non-Fact 7:
May 30: Jordan's King Hussein signs a five-year mutual defence pact with Egypt and the two set up a joint command, making clear its stance in any future conflict.

Fact the paper exists, simple matter of record.

Fact/Non-Fact 8:
May 31: Egyptian newspaper Al Akhbar reports: "Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery, co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria, is in a position to cut Israel in two ..."

Acting strictly defensively exactly how would the forces of Egypt and Syria "cut Israel in two" CarolC? To "cut Israel in two" wouldn't the forces of Egypt and Syria have to invade Israel?

Fact/Non-Fact 9:
May 31: Iraqi President Rahman Aref announces: "This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear--to wipe Israel off the map."

Are you saying that those words were not uttered by the Iraqi President CarolC?

Fact/Non-Fact 10:
June 4: Iraq joins Nasser's military alliance against Israel.

Fact the paper exists, simple matter of record.


Fact/Non-Fact 10:
June 5: Six Day War begins: Israeli Airforce attacks airfields in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq.

Fact or are you saying that they didn't.

By the bye CarolC – Jordan did not participate in the 1973 Yom Kippur War

"The moment is coming when we will march on Damascus to overthrow the Syrian Government" (this is the reason Nasser removed the UN observers and closed the Straits of Tiran) --General Yitzhak Rabin on Israeli radio, May 11, 1967

Now that little outburst from Rabin could not in any way have been as a result of the following could it CarolC:

Jan -March 1967 -
Over 270 border "incidents" cause rising concern in Israel. March 3 - Landmine injures tractorist in Kibbutz Shamir. March 12, explosion on train tracks near Kibbutz Lahav.

March 26, 1967
2 Palestinians killed trying to demolish a water pump near Arad.

April 7, 1967
Israelis respond to intensive Syrian shelling of DMZ and and Israeli villages and kibbutzim with IAF raid. An air battle involving about 130 aircraft developed. Israelis down 6 MiG 21 fighters, 2 over the Golan and 4 over Damascus.
   
May 11, 1967
Israeli PM Eshkol states, "In view of the 14 incidents in the past month alone it is possible that we will have to adopt measures no less drastic than those of April 7." UPI circulated a rumor (May 12) that Israel was trying to topple the Syrian regime. The incidents included shelling, terror attacks and attempted infiltration of a Syrian agent to blow up locations in Jerusalem.

May 12, 1967
Remarks by Yitzhak Rabin interpreted as provocative against Syria. Rabin is rebuked by Eshkol.