The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #112063 Message #2369090
Posted By: Teribus
18-Jun-08 - 02:32 PM
Thread Name: BS: Could the UK have defeated Germany ?
Subject: RE: BS: Could the UK have defeated Germany ?
Important aspects of the Second World War that were vital to Britain's defence that Britain undertook for the most part alone:
- Naval actions during the "phoney" war period fixed it firmly in the minds of the German Navy that if ever they put out they would face defeat. I refer to incidents like the loss of the Graf Spee, capture of the Altmark, first and second battles of Narvik which cost Germany her destroyer fleet. Germany's naval losses in Norway saved Britiain from invasion.
- Mine-countermeasures and the defeat of the German magnetic mine. The greatest ship killer throughout the war was the mine. The Royal Navy swept them more proficiently than anyone else.
- The Battle of Britain, over Britain all advantage lay with the vastly outnumbered RAF, in this case their "command and control" of the resources they had were far superior to anything the Germans could offer to the battle. This was again demonstrated over Malta.
- The Battle of the Atlantic in which the USN contributed very little, as far as naval forces go the effort was something in the order of 95% British, when the going got tough during the U-Boats second happy time the USN even withdrew whatever contribution they were making to protect shipping off their east-coast. Their problems were solved by the RN "lending" them experienced First Lieutenants to act as ASW Advisors on their ships (My father used to play golf with one of them) the advice given was switch off shore lights and move your escorts to seaward of the convoys and operate ASDIC.
- Committment to fight the Germans in Greece and Crete. This is what saved Russia it delayed Hitler's invasion plan for Barbarossa by two months thereby making it highly unlikely that Moscow or Leningrad would fall before the onset of winter in 1941.
- Successful defence of Malta
- Western Desert where Axis Forces were defeated
- Defeat of Axis Naval Forces in the Mediterranean
- Successful defence of Burma and India tied down thousands of Japanese troops, artillery, ships and aircraft that would have otherwise been used against the island hopping US Forces in the Pacific.
At no time at all did the Germans ever have superiority in armour, artillery or manpower. To invade in the west in 1940 they relied very heavily on the use of captured Czech t35 and t38 tanks that were a damn sight more reliable mechanically than their own Pz I, II, III and IV types. The British Matilda MkII and French CharB were superior in terms of armour and in numbers. The best tanks at the time were both Russian KVI's and KVII's and the T-34/76. The T-34/76 and T-34/85 were possibly the best tanks in mass production in the world during the Second World War. The American Sherman was knicknamed "Ronson" due to it's propensity to catch fire and "brew-up", it's only advantage lay in its numbers. It was only with the fitting of a British 17 pdr gun to the Sherman (Firefly) that it was ever capable of taking on the German PzV's and PzVI's in Normandy and beyond.
In terms of aircraft the Germans suffered greatly from having no strategic bomber force, their air force existed purely as a tactical air arm in support of their army. Although they made terrific technical advances, RAF Bomber Command and the US 8th Air Force denied them the opportunity to make any telling impact through those advances according to Hitler's Minister of Production, Albert Speer.
Read Churchill's speeches made during the dark days of 1940 - Contained in those speeches there is absolutely no doubt that Britain and her Empire would win through - only a matter of time. Ultimately Germany's fate was sealed the minute Hitler marched east, and Britain had an ally.
According to Guderian, Hitler's Military Staffs had advised him that he had to have his war in the West no later than 1938 and his war in the East before 1944 in order to have any chance of success. On no account must he fight, or attempt to fight, on two fronts. Chamberlain and Deladier baulked him at Munich in 1938, in 1938 the majority of fighter squadrons in service in the RAF were flying biplanes, radar was in it's infancy and had yet to be perfected, the Royal Navy had only just begun design of the Flower Class Corvettes and escort Frigates - in 1938 Hitler may well have won.
Another little piece of naval trivia for Guest B52, every single technical innovation relating to Aircraft Carriers has come from the Royal Navy: - Arrestor gear - Steam Catapults - Mirrored Landing Sights - Armoured Decks - oddly enough the USN never did take these up which made their carriers particularly susceptible to Kamikazi attack. - Centreline hanger lifts - as opposed to USN's insistance on side lifts, another major weakness in USN Carrier design - Half-angled Flight deck - Fully-angled Flight deck
"No canvas and webbing equipment or "a nail" for a bayonet(SMLE)."
What a bayonet needs, irrespective of design, is someone with a bit of guts behind it. Well B52, I can think of a number of bayonet charges against the Germans that were carried off quite successfully using that "nail" of a bayonet, and guess what? I cannot recall any that came from the other direction, wonder why?