The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #112423   Message #2380396
Posted By: Goose Gander
03-Jul-08 - 04:23 PM
Thread Name: BS: 'Loyal slaves'
Subject: RE: BS: 'Loyal slaves'
"Mr. Lincoln didn't fight the war, Mike. An overwhelming coalition of northerners- both Democrat and Republican- acted to put down southern treason & rebellion."

And NOT to free the slaves. Thank you, you have made my argument for me.

"Apparently not closely enough, or possibly the peripheral ones.You might wish to read 'em again - this time for comprehension. Start with the South Carolina Ordinance of Secession."

It should be clear from my previous postings that I acknowledge the degree to which pro-slavery sentiment and fear of abolitionism motivated many secessionists. You apparently are so hot under the collar that you are unable to read clearly.

"Absolute bullshit. Source, please. Most if not all southern states by the 1850s did not permit free blacks to reside within their borders & if they remained were subject to arbitrary re-enslavement."

My source for this is The American South, by William Cooper, which is a standard history on the subject. He gives a figure of 250,000 free blacks in the South. I don't have the book in front of me, but if I recall correctly this is larger both as a raw number and as a percentage of the population than in the northern United States. I'll look that up, and if I'm wrong I'll revise my comments. Perhaps you need to look into the treatment of blacks in the North, you may be surprised to find that 'Jim Crow' was a Northern invention.

"No, its the collaborator fact. No analogy at all. So bite me."

The Antebellum South was not equivalent to Nazi Germany, but if it was then Lincoln's willingness to comes to terms with slavery to preserve the Union was equivalent to Chamberlain's capitulation to Hitler. See, I can make crappy analogies, too.

"Yes, its a sad fact that throughout history various people have on occasion have acted against their own interests and /or aided and abetted the enemy. Again: your point is?"

My point should be obvious. This is a historical argument: Did blacks in some cases support the CSA; if so, why?