I didn't really want to go into all of this nationalist stuff too much as I think the only hope for the world is when we realise we are all one species on one planet. The opportunity to disagree with a McGrath however, is irresistible and demonstrates the difference between having a clear national identity and not having one for reasons identified by Sapper and Malcolm above.

Kevin says "Well, for me it's "British" that has the overtones of imperialism and so forth. As Malcolm says, English just means belonging to a geographical area. British has all kinds of sinister associations. There are all kinds of situations where the Union Jack spells trouble. The English flag of St George doesn't so far carry that sort of baggage".

I pretty much believe the complete opposite to that.

Kevin I know you strongly identify, with the geographical area where you live, Harlow, which is in England. Do you consider yourself then as belonging to it and to be English? I suspect not.

I think it depends on when you are born in England too. When I was growing up, what was left of the Empire was now to be called the Commonwealth. Looking back I feel that I was very much affected by the guilt of Empire. I was educated with and had friends who were Irish, Polish, Hungarian, Indian, Chinese and so on, all now permanently resident, in addition to the Scottish and Welsh. It was not considered that the latter were English but we were all could be British.

I would suggest that the "sinister overtones" associations with "British", pre-date the more positive association (or at least damage limitation) with the concept of the United Kingdom, that a lot of my generation do. That is not to say that the sinister aspects were/are not still in evidence, during the period I describe.

As to the flags, The use of the Union Flag never prevented the English from being blamed for worst excesses of Empire and he worst elements will be attracted to whichever flag is used. The European Football Championship starts this Saturday. The same elements that made the Union Flag spell trouble will now wrap themselves in the flag of St George and do the same. At least the rest of the UK will not now be blamed.

When football trouble abroad flared up, the media would have no hesitation about saying Scottish fans but would refer to British fans when they were clearly English fans that were causing trouble. I speak as an England football supporter, resident in Scotland for many years, who had to listen to England v Scotland matches with a Scottish commentator. …..If you think English commentators are biased, try listening to a Scottish one.

There was a TV programme this week about the build-up to the England v Scotland qualifier to theses Championships. It just used the views of the supporters and was very informative because of that. Despite the attempts of the media to build it up to be a 'battle', it was seen by most of those in the programme as a game of football.

I do understand the view of the UK from the non-English members but I do regret that we may have now 'thrown the baby out with the bath water'. I for one do not look forward to all the implications of the expression of a narrow English nationality in our now multi-cultured society. I think we should tread very carefully indeed.