In reply to some points put to me by PoppaGator in his post of 17 Jul 08 - 03:23 PM

Point 1:
"Iraq has "posed no threat to the United States of America since March 2003" only because it posed no such threat prior to that date, either."

Well PoppaGator that was not how two committees specifically tasked with evaluating what the greatest threat to the United States of America found it quite independently in the last quarter of 2001.

I have often asked people on this forum to explain how that threat evaluation was so implausible, now I will ask you, based upon what was known about Iraq at the end of 2001, in what way did Iraq pose no threat to the USA PoppaGator?

Point 2:
"Since the invasion, however, Iraq has become more problematic for our country's safety than it ever was before then."

Really? Is there any doubt at all now about Iraq's ambitions with regard to pursuit of WMD and associated means of manufacture and delivery? No there is not - potential threat removed, making US safer. Is the Government of Iraq still sponsoring international terrorist organisations that are anti-US in nature? No they are not - source of funding for declared enemies of the US and her allies removed, making US safer. If you doubt any of that PoppaGator tell us all how many successful attacks have been carried out against mainland USA since 11th September 2001? How many have been attempted and have been thwarted?

An unpalatable fact for most of you I know, but you have been kept safer by George W Bush and his administration after the attacks of 11th September 2001, than you were by the Clinton administration after the attack on World trade Centre in 1993.

Point 3:
"Iraq has become a safe haven and a recruiting bonanza for Al Quida since that date, whereas it provided no such comfort for our real enemies before then."

PoppaGator when Al-Qaeda fled from Afghanistan after the fall of the Taleban, most went into hiding in NWFP of Pakistan, two notables however fled to Iraq. As to being a "Safe Haven", I'd rather call that into doubt, they've lost over 19,000 dead, they're leaderless, uncoordinated and have been driven out of every city in Iraq, mostly by US/MNF troops assisted by Iraqi troops, Police and citizen militia's. Even the Al-Qaeda leadership hiding in the tribal lands along the Afghan-Pakistan border admit that their "cause" in Iraq is as good as lost - so much for the "recruiting bonanza".

Point 4:
"Teribus, if you truly need Amos to explain how Islamic terrorists like Al Quioda and the Taliban are a threat to the US ~ implying that they are NOT, after, so very dangerous ~ can you explain why the hell our government has been sending large numbers of our young people, and much larger numbers of Iraqi civilians, to their deaths for the last five years and more?"

Your Government PoppaGator has concentrated on the greater threat, which, post-9/11, was not Al-Qaeda, it was not the Taleban. Independently Al-Qaeda had already done the worst it could possibly do and the US had weathered it, the US had pulled together the entire world to fight terrorism, from that point on Al-Qaeda has been on the run, they are still on the run to this day. On their own as they are today, Al-Qaeda poses little or no threat.

Now what was the greatest threat scenario again:

International terrorist organisation supported and backed by a rogue regime that possesses WMD and which is hostile to the United States of America and is prepared to provide WMD, WMD materials and WMD technology to that international terrorist group in order that an asymetric attack, or attacks, involving WMD could be mounted on the mainland of the United States of America designed to inflict maximum civilian casualties.

Bearing all that in mind PoppaGator, let's take a look at what has happened to that threat to the United States of America since the invasion of Iraq in March 2003 - Note PoppaGator none of this would have happened had Iraq not been invaded:

- Iraq, Regime hostile to the USA removed from power; Iraq no longer athreat because of WMD programmes; Iraq no longer a state sponsoring international terrorist groups.

- Libya, regime hostile to the USA voluntarily abandoned its WMD programmes and materials including a nuclear weapons that was well advanced that nobody knew about. This nuclear disclosure blows the lid of the activities of Dr A. Q. Khan and stops them dead in their tracks.

- Iran, regime hostile to the USA (You don't scream "Death to America" every Friday of every year since 1979 without being basically hostile towards America), reportedly crash stopped its nuclear weapons programme in 2003 according to last November's National Intelligence Evaluation. Wonder why the Iranians did that?

- North Korea, regime hostile to the USA, forced to take part in six party talks at the insistance of the USA and finally convinced to abandon its nuclear weapons programme.

PoppaGator that's the four leading contenders for the role of rogue state in the threat equation eliminiated - and you are trying to tell me that the US isn't safer!! And just to get things clear here - you have never ever been safe, but you have been a damn sight safer under your present President that you have ever been under any of his predecessors.