My problem is with the fact that people like you and Mick insist of laying this issue on the backs of business owners because of a little jealousy of how they've managed to put a few dollars in the bank because of their sweat and toil, and for whatever reason, you can't feel good for them for truly taking advantage of the opportunities that this country puts forth.


See, this is exactly the type of thing I am talking about. I layed out a predicate for the debate, and Susu's Hubby comes back with the lame old line about me being jealous of them. I have a newsflash for you. In your rush to defend these champions of yours, did the thought ever occur to you that a good deal of the wealth was gained on the backs, sweat and toil of their workers?   When your heroes go out and negotiate for the best price for their product, their supplies, and such, you call that good management and anoint them heroes of modern America. When workers band together into a union for the purpose of negotiating the wages, benefits and conditions of their employment, you act as though that is the bane of the world. I am not jealous of them, but I am damn sick and tired of them getting all the breaks, in the interests of them increasing profits, and it comes at the expense of the American working class.

Here is another example of the weak intellectual basis of your arguments. You use the tactic of trying to say something enough times until it becomes true. This line in your last post:

Stop living in the past. It's over.

is known among folks that actually have some skills in debate as a gratuitous assertion, and according to the rules of debate, can be just as gratuitously denied. Hence:

I am not living in the past, nor is it over.

You anti labor folks have been trying to use this variation of the "Unions were good once, but their time is past..." for a number of years. Our good friend, Bruce "U. Utah" Phillips used to say that he could go outside and pick up any rock and it would be older than any song (or trite assertion....my words) you currently have. He went on to say that when folks try to get you to quit looking at the past, it's usually because there is something there that they don't want you to see. In this case the thing that guys like you don't want folks to see is that the conditions right now, and the effect on the working middle class, is headed right back in the direction that it has several other times in history when we allowed labor laws to be weakened, safety and regulatory laws to be gutted, and no protections from unfair imports.

Your lies worked OK, when folks couldn't feel what was going on behind the scenes. Now that the fruits of that planting are coming to harvest, people are becoming aware.

So it ain't over, bub. And saying it won't make it so.

Mick