The thing I like about you, Bearded Bruce, is that you have a good sense of humour* (*Canadian spelling) and an ability to meet someone else halfway and find some common ground. That does a lot to bring some reasonableness into a discussion.

pdq - I have no problem with BB's facts...nor Carol's. They do such a good job providing those that they don't need any additional help from me. ;-) So I don't spend much time on the "cut and paste" routine, because it's already been well taken care of. What I am doing instead is attempting (as usual) to get various people here to be flexible enough to think outside their own narrow political/cultural box for a change. If they did, then they would not be so easily fooled by crass emotive propaganda such as is usually spewed by their political leaders and their media, who couldn't care less about "the facts"...but only about whipping up an emotional frenzy of some kind in which "the other side" (whoever that might be) is made to look evil.

When the Russians do the same kind of things you (Americans) do, you think it's wrong, but you don't think it's wrong when you do it. I find that funny. I think you should become more self-aware.

Do like in the Bible, pdq....check out the beam in your own national eye.